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stainless damascus vs S30V
- Thread starter APerna
- Start date
- Joined
- May 26, 2000
- Messages
- 1,922
In what way... edge retention? Or stain resistance?
Damascus is, generally, no better than the sum of it's parts (there are a few subtle exceptions), and can be worse than the sum of it's parts if the steels chosen aren't well matched, or if it's welded poorly. Carbon migration and poor welds (delamination) are the usual problems, and where the 2 or 3 components are all martensitic steels, the heat treat for damascus is often a bit of a "split the difference" affair, not optimized for either component (hence the need for careful matching).
Materials:
If you already know about the damascus components, you can draw good conclusions about the damascus performance when things are optimal (i.e. skilled damascus maker and skilled heat treater).
The pinstripe could be high contrast (nickel and 1095) or high carbon (1084 & 15-N-20). 15N20 is a 2% Nickel high carbon steel.
Devin's stainless is composed of AEB - L and 304. (that's one knife steel, and one non-martensitic steel).
AEB-L's composition is 0.6% carbon, 13.5% chrome, 0.65% manganese, and 0.4% silicon (I think this is right, hard to find data). AEB-L is a Swedish stainless razor and scalpel steel. I've also seen data where they show 18% chrome (Uddeholm). If the 18% is right, that would make it pretty close to 440A. (anyone know composition of AEB-L for sure?)
304SS is VERY corrosion resistant (better than the 440's) but is not martensitic (it's an austenitic), i.e. it won't harden to levels commensurate with what you are used to in knife steels. 304 is the "shiny" part that resists etch in showing the pattern.
Performance:
If you cast a skeptical eye towards the (usually hyped) contention that damascus is any super steel, where the combination exceeds the ability of the two steels in either toughness or edge holding, or that the damascus ladder pattern cuts with a microserration type effect, you will land on the right side of the truth 98% of the time. The grit you use to sharpen will overwhelm any real micro-serration effect.
General rule: Damascus is for looks. And it looks great. IMO.
Some of the ABS guys who mix, say, L6 and O1, or 5160 and L6, or 1084 and 15N20, can weld a high performance tough blade out of such stuff. L6 and O1 is a sensible match for an interesting performance mix (blend of tough L6, and edge holding of O1) along with good looks (e.g. Kevin Cashen). 5160 and L6 are close enough in application and toughness the blade could be as tough as either steel, and therefore the damascus would be for looks, in general.
Devin's high carbon cuts about as well as 1084 or 15N20 would on their own most likely.
S30V, properly heat treated, will easily surpass any stainless damascus I know of, performance-wise (Norris, Thomas, Damasteel).
But the damascus sure looks cool.
Damascus is, generally, no better than the sum of it's parts (there are a few subtle exceptions), and can be worse than the sum of it's parts if the steels chosen aren't well matched, or if it's welded poorly. Carbon migration and poor welds (delamination) are the usual problems, and where the 2 or 3 components are all martensitic steels, the heat treat for damascus is often a bit of a "split the difference" affair, not optimized for either component (hence the need for careful matching).
Materials:
If you already know about the damascus components, you can draw good conclusions about the damascus performance when things are optimal (i.e. skilled damascus maker and skilled heat treater).
The pinstripe could be high contrast (nickel and 1095) or high carbon (1084 & 15-N-20). 15N20 is a 2% Nickel high carbon steel.
Devin's stainless is composed of AEB - L and 304. (that's one knife steel, and one non-martensitic steel).
AEB-L's composition is 0.6% carbon, 13.5% chrome, 0.65% manganese, and 0.4% silicon (I think this is right, hard to find data). AEB-L is a Swedish stainless razor and scalpel steel. I've also seen data where they show 18% chrome (Uddeholm). If the 18% is right, that would make it pretty close to 440A. (anyone know composition of AEB-L for sure?)
304SS is VERY corrosion resistant (better than the 440's) but is not martensitic (it's an austenitic), i.e. it won't harden to levels commensurate with what you are used to in knife steels. 304 is the "shiny" part that resists etch in showing the pattern.
Performance:
If you cast a skeptical eye towards the (usually hyped) contention that damascus is any super steel, where the combination exceeds the ability of the two steels in either toughness or edge holding, or that the damascus ladder pattern cuts with a microserration type effect, you will land on the right side of the truth 98% of the time. The grit you use to sharpen will overwhelm any real micro-serration effect.
General rule: Damascus is for looks. And it looks great. IMO.
Some of the ABS guys who mix, say, L6 and O1, or 5160 and L6, or 1084 and 15N20, can weld a high performance tough blade out of such stuff. L6 and O1 is a sensible match for an interesting performance mix (blend of tough L6, and edge holding of O1) along with good looks (e.g. Kevin Cashen). 5160 and L6 are close enough in application and toughness the blade could be as tough as either steel, and therefore the damascus would be for looks, in general.
Devin's high carbon cuts about as well as 1084 or 15N20 would on their own most likely.
S30V, properly heat treated, will easily surpass any stainless damascus I know of, performance-wise (Norris, Thomas, Damasteel).
But the damascus sure looks cool.