Stainless or Not?

Q

Quy4n8

Joined
Nov 27, 2002
Messages
659
A short time ago I started a thread comparing forged and stock removal knives. As a sideline, stainless and carbon steel briefly came up in the discussion. Which brings me to my question; Is there any advantage to stainless steel versus carbon steel, besides the rust resistance? Seems like carbon steel is easier to sharpen, holds an edge longer (because it doesn’t roll as easily) and is tougher than stainless. I know that heat treat and edge geometry are at least as important if not more so, but I can always reprofile an edge if I want to, and before I can decide on how to heat treat a blade, I need to decide on the steel. What are your thoughts?
Thanks.

Richard
 
I only have one non-stainless knife. Corrosion is a factor in life, so I go stainless. And I don't need the constant precision of a scalpel in my daily use, I need a knife to cut stuff and make minor repairs.

Having said that, I think traditional carbon steel knives just flat out cut better. To me, they feel 'cleaner' when they slice, like butter when they sharpen. A professional maker can 'pack the edge' of an upscale knife, and you'll fight to give it back. Sharpen a knife from before the War and the performance will scare you. I saw a blue-white worn out sheath knife my Dad owned, and a lick brought it back to downright scary.

Alas, I live in a world of rust, dust, sweat and exposure. I make the best choice I can. I have never owned something of D2, but it might be a good decision.
 
Richard Sommer :

Is there any advantage to stainless steel versus carbon steel, besides the rust resistance?
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No. To be clear there are stainless steels which are tougher than carbon steels, AISI-420 vs T15. There are also stainless steels which are more abrasion resistant than carbon steels, S90V vs L6 for example. However you can always find other carbon steels which would be directly superior, CPM-10V vs S90V for example. 10V is tougher (neither are very tough), can be made harder and is more abrasion resistant - S90V is simply more corrosion resistant.

-Cliff
 
I'm a big fan of non-stainless, but there are very few production model locking blade folders made in non-stainless. For fixed blades where hidden surfaces can be sealed off from corrosion, I really like the idea of low-chrome steels. Whether it's a cutter or chopper, I'd prefer low levels of chrome. For locking folders, I prefer non-stainless, but I only know of a few production models.
 
Thom,

What locking folders do you know of which are not stainless? I have one made by John Greco. Very happy with it, but it is the only one I know of. Thanks.

Richard
 
Richard,

There's the 710HS and 910HS from Benchmade. Both are made from their wonderful M2 steel (teeming with tungsten, crammed with carbon, and yummy as all get-go!). Cold Steel makes their Trailguide in Carbon V (possibly 0170-6C) in clip and drop point configuration at both 3 and 4 inches.

There are also limited edition folders from Benchmade that feature M2 (705BC1CFHS, 705BC1HS, 730CFHS, 732HS), but they're rarer than hen's teeth (which neither folder, nor contain low-chrome steel, just silver/mercury fillings...).
 
As far as I know non-stainless is less expensive to begin with and much easier to work and heat treat than stainless steels, so you can get a good user blade in non-stainless much cheaper than in stainless.

You can certainly get a very good blade in stainless. Modern steels, and modern methods of heat treating them are fantastic IMHO, you just have to pay for it.
 
i definitely agree with cliff. but i'd also add S30V into the mix. it's specs are just fantastic for an all-around player in terms of the balance between toughness, corrosion resistance, & edge-holding.
 
I don't look at it as "best" anymore. A ferarri would be a faster, better handling car than a Ford Tauris, for sure. But the Taurus would do everything I need a car to do, and is much cheaper to buy/run.

ATS-34 does everythign I need it to do as far as a cutting tool goes, AND it doesn't rust like carbon steel does! So I like the corrosion resistance that I get from 440-C, ATS-34, etc.

OF course, if my uses were different, I might change my mind. But from my uses, the quality stainless steels out there are winners for me.
 
Originally posted by Crayola
ATS-34 does everythign I need it to do as far as a cutting tool goes, AND it doesn't rust like carbon steel does!
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It rusts worse. It forms deep pits of corrosion versus easily removable surface rust.

Higher-chromed steels easily meet and exceed all of my needs and 85% of my wants, but, for most of them, their increased stain resistance is very overrated. The leaf springs in most cars are 5160 and they see a lot more exposure to moisture than most of our knives and few of us wiping our chassis down. I don't see the added brittleness and generally larger grain-size really being worth the added stain resistance for most knives.

Don't get me wrong. I have knives made from 154CM, 440A, 440C, AUS-6A, AUS-6M, AUS-8A, D2, N690, and S30V that are absolutely wonderful. I just don't have enough rust on the 1095, 5160, and M2 blades to see a justifiable difference.
 
Thom,

I think you misinterpreted my quote. For the uses I have put my ATS-34 blades through, I would have had rust on carbon steel blades. None of my ATS-34 blades have deep pittin in them! SOmetimes I have done a lot of cutting in the ktichen with my ATS-34 folders, cutting acidic fruits, meat, etc. all in one session. And I won't clean the blade for an hour or so while prepping food. A Carbon Steel blade would at least have stained, and likely would have rusted otu a bit (cut soem limes, put the knife down to answer the phone and chat for a few minutes). Yes, I suppose a person would just wipe the knfie while talking on the phone! But my point in that quoted bit there was that the way I use my knives, ATS-34 has been a great performer, without rusting at all.
 
Gotcha. For pitting to occur, a little more neglect would be needed than leaving the knife unattended for a few minutes whereas your limes would start the staining process. Point taken.
 
If you let knives sit wet then you will see benefit from the corrosion resistance of the pseudo-stainless cutlery steels. I ran such a edge retention trial on the Deerhunters. Specifically after a two hour soak in lemon juice a D2 blade blunted twice as much in a short hemp cutting trial than a VG-10 blade and D2 is one of the more corrosion resistant tool steels. Though of course it is not like this is difficult to prevent, most people won't leave their knives sitting in what they just cut to prevent cross contamination of food anyway. For a common kitchen though I would definately go with something like 420HC simply because you only need one person to be sloppy to give the knife deep pits, ATS-34 isn't going to be enough there. Leave it out overnight just once and you have deep pits.

-Cliff
 
Is there any advantage to stainless steel versus carbon steel, besides the rust resistance?
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My opinion ist a bit different i hope you don´t mind.

As far as i know you will normally get a finer grain strukture with carbon steels . So it will get sharper,easier to resharpen and potentially thougher. Spring steel is an example for good thoughness and 52100 for good sharpness.
I guess that you can find the coherence between alloys and the grain strukture in the archieves here.
Edit: I got the question wrong:rolleyes:
 
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