Stainless Steel "Bush Knives"

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RI_Shooter

Joined
Apr 6, 2003
Messages
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I've read the reviews of large using "bush knives"
by Chris Stamp and others. I'm curious if those who have
conducted this sort of testing consider any of the stainless
steels suitable for these sort of knives.

Specifically, I'm talking about goloks,parangs,bolos, and
the various modern versions of them that are intended as
medium heavy wood-cutting tools and secondary weapons, rather
than the light vegetation machete types.

I've made such knives of both stainless and carbon steels.
Here I'm interested in the opinions of others who have far more
experience as makers, or who have conducted extensive practical
testing of this sort of "bush knife." Thanks for your input.
 
Such steels have the worst set of properties for that type of blade, they are optomized for corrosion and wear resistance and sacrafice toughness and ductility to do so (which mean the cross section has to be increased to get the necessary durability which means more weight and less cutting ability). They give up properties you want to maximize for abilities of little or no consequence.

The only advantage that can be argued is the corrosion resistance and that is only a factor if you don't use the knife. Any long blade which is in use will not see corrosion because the constant burnishing will readily remove any rust before it can form. I have used even steels like L6 and 5160 in the rain and they won't rust. The only concern is putting them away wet, and if you do this frequently you can get pitting even on stainless steels.

-Cliff
 
cant really add here, but all the BETTER goloks, parangs, machetes I've seen being used locals in South East Asia are made from carbon steel (most of the time, the forged ones are made from truck/car springs). Yes, they will definitely tarnish, no running away from that.
 
What are your opinions on the best blade lengths
for these type of knives? The goloks seem to be
15"-16". The big bolo on Jerry Hossum's site is also
15" Any opinions on overall weights and balance points?
 
I think that the 'optimal' length of a blade used for clearing and chopping depends upon the arm length and overall height of the individual user.

Balance should be in front of the guard so that the weight of the blade can help generate extra force while cutting. How far out? Beats me, I'm afraid.
 
How much blade length depend on if you want the blade to have any knife capability, specifically I find that once the blade exceeds 14-16" it has become far too awkward to be used for any knife like chore and it basically a machete. This is heavily influenced by height.

Balance point gives power to the blade and the weaker the individual the more the balance has to be shifted back to neutral or the fatigue rate will be too high and the blade next to useless. This of course will change with experience, there are blade that I would now rate as light whereas I would have called them heavy in hand a few years ago.

My Battle Mistress for example was quite hefty when I first got it, however after using khukuris and other large blades for the past few years my Battle Mistress is now one of my lighter blades and literally floats in hand (this is the heavier SHBM). Even my 18" AK gets a lot of light brush use. Stil working on the 22" version.

-Cliff
 
Off-topic, with apologies to RI_Shooter,

Cliff,

Did you have a good Christmas? Sent you an email, but I don't know if your spam-filter got it or something.

Happy New Years!

And now, back to the regularly scheduled topic...

Would a softer stainless, such as 420HC work or would it just blow out too easily on hard impacts?
 
If I had to use a stainless that is what I would chose or something similar. However I would do so reluctantly because of the above reasons. No sign of any email, christmas was good, still no snow here which is always a nice break. January is likely to be heavy as always.

-Cliff
 
Glad to hear that your Christmas was good and that New England's luck (so far) has been extended to New Foundland (so far).

I have a stainless steel kukhri, but the worst it's cut was sheet metal, so it's had no damage.

Happy New Years, everyone, whether your favorite knives are forged, are completely fashioned from stock removal, are used for cutting, or are used for pommel-strikes to dead horses!
 
I appreciate the time taken to answer at the holiday
season. Blade length certainly does have something to do
with size and strength. I had the best luck with blades of
about 12" and 16". I'm 48, 5'8", 180 lbs, in decent shape
because I've worked out since I was a teenager. When I gave
the blades to other people to try, it seemed like they also
distinctly preferred about 10",12", or 16" regardless of
their size, but taller men chose the 16".

It seemed to me that 12" could do a lot more than the
shorter blades, while remaining handy, and that 16" did just
about anything you might want. The fact remains that my
friends and I don't have the time or location to test them
even a fraction as well as a lot of members of this forum.
Certainly not the time and length of use that Cliff Stamp
has done in his reviews.

Cliff, I think you are right about just using a heavier
knife will accustom you to it. To me about 12-20 oz,
(340-660 grams) is what feels right in 10"-16" blades.
Despite being fairly strong in the gym the Kukri's feel
heavy and unwieldy to me, although they are beautiful and
chop very well.

Do you still feel that 5160 is the best choice in a
large knife?
 
i prefer 14-15 inches for a machete myself (I'm 5'6"), otherwise I lose a lot of bush-clearing ability. Anything longer is unwieldy to me and too heavy. I also like thinner blades for a machete.
 
the Malay parang (wooden handle & sheath) as well as forged Chinese parang (plastic handle) - forged blade. There is a big difference between the traditional Malay parang n the new Chinese parang. I've never used a machete like those sold by Martindale / Ontario / Cold Steel etc.

sorry, I used the term machete to cover the parang/golok as well.
 
A couple of questions about the Malay parang that you
are actually using now. You said earlier that it's a
14-15 inch blade. Is it shaped similarly to the valiant
golok, or does it have the upswpt drop-point style tip?

How thick is the steel, and does it have a distal
taper? How much does the knife itself weigh?

I ask these questions because I'm curious about a
present day working knife is constructed, rather than
one of the older blades, or the ones that are made now
for the tourist trade. What kind of wood is the handle?
 
5160 is a solid steel choice for that type of knife, there are lots of other similar steels, basically all you are looking for is a steel which is decently tough and can be hardened to 56/58 HRC.

Yes the khukuris have a lot of heft, it took awhile before my wrist was strong enough to handle a decent sized one without undue effort, and even now the heavier ones I can not use for lighter brush work.

-Cliff
 
5160 is a good choice for any hard use knife, however, you won't get that good edge holding that you would with other carbon steels, any one else observe that?
 
5160" "you won't get that good edge holding that you would with other carbon steels"

As compared to what? Well-treated 3V?
 
As compared to say, 0-1 or 1095. I have used those three steels a lot, and 5160 won't hold an edge as long.
I'm a big fan of carbon steels, but a guy in Hawaii made me a stainless steel parang of ATS-34 a few years ago and it holds an excellent edge, however, the edge geometry on the parang is excellent and I think more important than steel type. The guy made his mark AKI and I believe that he no longer makes machettes, etc;
 
Thomas, I have never had a blade of 3v, however, I've heard that it is one tough steel! I much prefer carbon steels for their ease of sharpening and overall toughness.
Have you ever tried 0-1, either forged or stock removal? I've used many various steels and I love that steel, for pocket knives as well as hunters. I bought a bush knife from Gene Ingram that is absolutely awesome in all respects. I etched it with ferric chloride and it is one of my favorite customs.
 
I have knives in O-1, 1095, and 5160. No two are the same blade geometry or even allegedly heat-treated identically, so I can't do the comparison you have done.

I do not think ATS-34 has a reputation as a prime choice for a chopping blade, but I defer to the experts here.

I have a 3V knife. No scientific data to offer, but I can't seem to get it dull despite hacking, chopping (well-seasoned red oak), and even digging with it.
 
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