Stainless that performs like carbon ?

J

Jamesh Bond

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Jan 14, 2007
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So i googled this and searched here. Got results with both. Interestingly, the answers varied greatly depending on the date, and perceived status of certain steels.

So, in the spirit of a fresh answer :

Im wondering what kinds of Stainless steels might perform (in the real world) similar to simple Carbon Steels, particularly in toughness and edge holding.

I have an old Cold Steel Master Hunter in Carbon V, which i believe is 52100. Looking to pair a folder in a similar behaving steel.

Been around the block a few times, so I'm aware of some of the obvious, answers i will get. But id like to hear opinions based on your experience.

Thx.
 
Hi Jamesh,

Where are you located?
Do you have easy access to a French Opinel?
You can find them in Carbon as well as Stainless steel varieties.
They are cheap as well, so you won't get broke
when testing :-)

Have fun!
Claes in Lund, Sweden
 
I don't think the carbon V is 52100.

By way of "performs similar" do you mean takes an edge easily, and holds it a bit?

Inox steel from Opinel Sharpens very well. It takes a very keen edge. Their carbon seems more like 1065 or 1075 to me. It is run a bit soft. Sharpens easily. Gets sharp. But does not hold an edge as long.

Even plain old 440C with a decent heat treat will hold an edge longer, but it has larger carbide which makes it take more effort to sharpen compared to carbon steel.

Here is a thread about the carbon V steel, the formula is not a set steel, as described in this thread.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/396839-Carbon-V-Steel-vs-1095-Steel
 
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AEB-L or 13c26n should be the closest. I believe James Terrio describes them as stainless for huys who don't like stainless. They're very fine grained and give decent performance.
 
Carbon V was 0176-6C, also known as 50100B. It's similar to 1095 it was originally used by the Sharon steel company. Story is a little deeper than that but that's the short version.

Per the original question,

Elmax and XHP come to mind but in the end there is always a trade off.
 
Great question Jamesh - I do not know the answer in regards to my own experience but I have a custom kitchen knife in CPM 154 which I find from user experience is not "as good" as 1095/52100 or A2. I asked a similiar question some time ago and I think "a verdict" was that AEB-L was one of the choices. Also, 3V is pretty good in toughness and edge holding and though it is not stainless, it needs less maintenance for sure than 1095 for instance.

Here is the thread that I mentioned: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Good-stainless-steel-choice-for-a-camp-knife
 
Bigfattyt said:
I don't think the carbon V is 52100.

By way of "performs similar" do you mean takes an edge easily, and holds it a bit?

Inox steel from Opinel Sharpens very well. It takes a very keen edge. Their carbon seems more like 1065 of 1075 to me. It is run a bit soft. Sharpens easily. Gets sharp. But does not hold an edge as long.

Even plain old 440C with a decent heat treat will hold an edge longer, but it has larger carbide which makes it take more effort to sharpen compared to carbon steel.

Here is a thread about the carbon V steel, the formula is not a set steel, as described in this thread.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/396839-Carbon-V-Steel-vs-1095-Steel
Click to expand...

Ya, aware of most of what you speak, including the Carbon V thing.

I guess i mean "takes and holds a nice edge." Preferably on simpler abrasives. Thinking maybe high carbide stainless not apply as much. Dunno tho.

Sorry guys, the question is sort of evolving as i go here.

Thx so far. Lets hear some more !
 
awestib said:
Great question Jamesh - I do not know the answer in regards to my own experience but I have a custom kitchen knife in CPM 154 which I find from user experience is not "as good" as 1095/52100 or A2. I asked a similiar question some time ago and I think "a verdict" was that AEB-L was one of the choices. Also, 3V is pretty good in toughness and edge holding and though it is not stainless, it needs less maintenance for sure than 1095 for instance.

Here is the thread that I mentioned: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Good-stainless-steel-choice-for-a-camp-knife
Click to expand...

Yes. I too will compare my Emerson 154CM to my 1095 experiences.

Just kinda "feels" similar ???
 
Thx Insipid.

I read about that comparison, as well as Mike Stewart using 12c27.

Also seen the xCr1xMoV and Ausx steels sometimes compared to simple carbon, depending on maker, blade type/use, and heat treat.

Thx.
 
420HC, 8Cr13MoV, AUS-8, 12C27M, 12C27, 13C26, 14C28N, maybe 440A. These have similar structures to plain carbon steels and low alloy steels, though 440A is a bit of a reach for that.
 
me2 said:
420HC, 8Cr13MoV, AUS-8, 12C27M, 12C27, 13C26, 14C28N, maybe 440A. These have similar structures to plain carbon steels and low alloy steels, though 440A is a bit of a reach for that.
Click to expand...

Jamesh Bond said:
(...)
I guess i mean "takes and holds a nice edge." Preferably on simpler abrasives. Thinking maybe high carbide stainless not apply as much. Dunno tho.

(...)
Click to expand...

Bigfattyt said:
(...)

Inox steel from Opinel Sharpens very well. It takes a very keen edge. Their carbon seems more like 1065 of 1075 to me. It is run a bit soft. Sharpens easily. Gets sharp. But does not hold an edge as long.

Even plain old 440C with a decent heat treat will hold an edge longer, but it has larger carbide which makes it take more effort to sharpen compared to carbon steel.(...)
Click to expand...

Jamesh Bond said:
(...)
Im wondering what kinds of Stainless steels might perform (in the real world) similar to simple Carbon Steels, particularly in toughness and edge holding.

(...)
Click to expand...

All of the bolded points above are valid and good suggestions. It's actually pretty easy to find simpler stainless steels comparable to simpler carbon steels for typical & sensible 'real world' usage. So long as you're comparing each at similar/same hardness values (HRC) and with good quality (purity) from the manufacturer, many can often be almost indistinguishable from the others in terms of ease of sharpening, toughness and edge-holding. In particular, Sandvik steels like 12c27, 13c26 and others can be exceptionally good on all those underlined points. Opinel's stainless (Sandvik 12c27Mod) is arguably better than their 'carbone' blades in edge-holding, probably due to the steel's ability to be taken higher in hardness (up to HRC 59, as spec'd by Sandvik) than their 'carbone' (XC90 steel), which seems to be on the softer side; it can take beautifully keen edges, but is a bit more fragile and vulnerable to edge-rolling and dings, than the stainless.


David
 
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Edge holding and toughness of carbon but Stainless too?

Sandvik Steels hands down.
Kershaw and Mora are really the only prodution offerings though.
Can't beat the price and ease of Sharpening.
 
Do the Sandviks really come that close in edge and toughness ? This is hard for me to swallow since i am a biased doubter but i love it when im wrong. Never owned this steel, but im very excited to try it. Any specific series ?

BONUS QUESTION:
What what be the closest stainless to my Master Hunter? Mid nineties model if it helps. Still need a complementary folder. Skyline ?

Thx.
 
Jamesh Bond said:
Do the Sandviks really come that close in edge and toughness ?
Click to expand...

Yes

Jamesh Bond said:
This is hard for me to swallow since i am a biased doubter but i love it when im wrong. Never owned this steel, but im very excited to try it. Any specific series ?
Click to expand...

13C26/AEB-L is very similar in its characteristics to 52100 if I remember correctly from metallurgist such as J.D Verhoeven and R. Landes. They have some papers published that further support their statements.

I do however recommend that you try and get these steels in custom knives. Sad to say, but a lot of steels in the production capacity is not optimally heat treated. 12C27 in a Mora vs 12C27 at HRC of 61 with cryo in a custom are going to perform quite differently.
 
Jamesh Bond said:
Do the Sandviks really come that close in edge and toughness ? This is hard for me to swallow since i am a biased doubter but i love it when im wrong. Never owned this steel, but im very excited to try it. Any specific series ?

BONUS QUESTION:
What what be the closest stainless to my Master Hunter? Mid nineties model if it helps. Still need a complementary folder. Skyline ?

Thx.
Click to expand...

They come close, only carbon is going to be just like carbon.

I have two knives in 12c, one from EKA and one from Bark River. The BR takes an edge easier and holds it very well - very much like some of my 1095. The EKA I believe is run to a higher RC. It won't take a good edge unless taken to a fairly high polish though holds it very well. The 14c I have is from Kershaw and takes and holds an edge at pretty much any finish. Is easy to sharpen.
 
marthinus said:
Yes



13C26/AEB-L is very similar in its characteristics to 52100 if I remember correctly from metallurgist such as J.D Verhoeven and R. Landes. They have some papers published that further support their statements.

I do however recommend that you try and get these steels in custom knives. Sad to say, but a lot of steels in the production capacity is not optimally heat treated. 12C27 in a Mora vs 12C27 at HRC of 61 with cryo in a custom are going to perform quite differently.
Click to expand...

This is the key, try the steels in customs heat treated by experts to higher levels. AEB-L at 57-58 isn't really that "special" at 61 its really impressive... easy to sharpen, very fine edge, and it lasts.
 
Cool news. Wish the custom route was even a remote possibility.

But i keep noticing numourous references to it performing well at a higher RC. Is this the range where it becomes similar to carbon, then? Yeah the edge holding would obviously improve, but wont the difference in hardness somewhat cancel out the other desired similarities of toughness and ease of sharpening ? Im a bit confused.

Thx.
 
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