stainless vs. 1095

G

guntram

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Oct 4, 2010
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debut thread is too out of hand for questions, so i figured i'd start a new thread.

i am curious about the pros and cons of 1095 and stainless steel. i've mostly owned stainless blades, but have never had issues with the carbon steel blades i do have. so, what are the benefits of each?

this was brought on by the announcement of the new stainless 4, but just general info based on experience will suffice. :) thanks.
 
Stainless is just another part of the market. Some users work in more corrosive environments. Before the H1 and other non-rust materials came along, 440C was already a good steel for mariners.

If your 1095 is not rusting where you are using it, you don't need stainless. But it sure is pretty.
 
what about strength and durability? is stainless any more/less brittle or hard? and, by the way, i agree that it is very pretty. :)
 
guntram said:
what about strength and durability? is stainless any more/less brittle or hard? and, by the way, i agree that it is very pretty. :)
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In my experience (which is very limited) stainless is usually harder and more resistant to scratching and abrasion
 
I don't personally care for the look of stainless over good carbon steel for a blade. Selecting which steel is better is more than stainless or carbon. It has never really been that simple but it is much more complicated with more choices now than ever.

If you are all comparing all stainless steels to 1095 then stainless wins hands down. 1095 is really an entry level steel. With a proper heat treat it is a good knife steel. Of course there are dozens of better carbon knife steels.

In todays world there are so many good steels being used I think it might pay you to worry more about the heat treat and the grind than the steel itself. True high performance steels are not really needed unless you are making a knife that takes advantage of their benefits.

Say you want a really big thick heavy chopping knife. It doesn't really need to be some fancy high end steel as something like 1095 or 5610 really shines in this situation. But thin that blade down and grind it at more gradual angles and all of a sudden those steels are not strong enough to shine in a blade like that. That is when your money is well spent on better, stronger, and harder steels.

Normally when you are talking about classes of steels the quality of the heat treat can blur the lines of which steel is better. Most people will probably tell you that BG42 or SV30 is better than ATS34 is better than 440C. In reality properly heat treated 440C is better than BG42 or SV30 that has a marginal heat treat.

That is where many people get confused. You can buy a G10 scaled SV30 knife from many sources. You can probably find them priced from $25 to more than $700. What's the difference? Hopefully the better maker has spent more time and has more knowledge to make sure the steel has been heat treated properly to perform at it's optimum level. The $25 knife could be excellent but for that dollar figure and those materials it doesn't leave much to spend on quality control.

So really there is no hard fast answer to your question. It in it's most basic sense any knife steel done right by a good maker should provide you with good blade. In that sense it boils down to preference and do you need the rust resistance that stainless may provide for you.
 
TUF said:
If you are all comparing all stainless steels to 1095 then stainless wins hands down. 1095 is really an entry level steel. With a proper heat treat it is a good knife steel. Of course there are dozens of better carbon knife steels.
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2 questions:
1. Comparing stainless to 1095 in what capacity(s)?
2. What other carbon (high carbon) steels are there that are better?

Not looking to argue, just for knowledge!
Thanks!
 
thank you for your responses. i'm definitely not worried about esee producing a knife that is subpar. actually, i've been on the fence about a 4 because i really want a 5. this stainless 4 may be the perfect excuse for me to pick one up. a good slicing blade in stainless would be a nice tool to keep around, whether i need to worry about rust or not. makes me wonder if a stainless izula is in the running for a future addition. seems to make sense that a blade that is likely to be carried against the skin (like a necker) would make sense in stainless steel.
 
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440c Is a excellent stainless steel for knives, it will hole its egde good and is easy to sharpen, if heat-treated correct it can be between 56-58 Rc for a knife....

Yes both 440C and 1095 can be hardened at a much higher level but then if becomes fragile/brittle (will shatter easy)....
 
mdole said:
2 questions:
1. Comparing stainless to 1095 in what capacity(s)?
2. What other carbon (high carbon) steels are there that are better?

Not looking to argue, just for knowledge!
Thanks!
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1. I think you would have to set the criterion for that. If you had one or more things you wanted your blade to excel at you could find a stainless steel or steels that would be better than 1095 at meeting those particular challenges. If it looks like I am knocking 1095 I am not. I really like 1095 for it's overall versatility and the value it gives.

2. Any of the high speed tool and bearing steels will do anything that 1095 will and do lots of things that 1095 couldn't even attempt. M2, M4, 52100, O-1, A2, D2, etc are all high carbon steels that are stronger and tougher than 1095 assuming they are properly heat treated. I purposely left out INFI as my experience with it is limited and has only been with incredibly thick blades. I am not sure that is really a high carbon steel as it seems as stain resistant as most stainless steels. I do like the fact I can get a razor edge on INFI. I look forward to getting a thinner knife made from INFI.

Honestly 1095 is all the knife steel most people would ever need if they don't need the stain resistance that stainless offers and they don't push the steel's capacity with uber thin grinds.
 
Hi everyone. I am new here and this is my first post.

TUF,
When you say,
"... and they don't push the steel's capacity with uber thin grinds. "
does it mean 1095 steel shouldn't be sharpened to the extreme?
If so, is sharpening with a Fine diamond stone and then stropping using leather and some compound like jeweler's rouge considered too fine for 1095? Should one stop at a fine stone and not strop?

Thanks for the info :)
Adam
 
Adam I think what TUF is getting at, is 1095 wont perform as well at say 5-10degrees(per side)

Not how much you sharpen it.
 
Ah I think I get it. You mean the blade can't be made as thin, for example it could never be a sushi knife hehe.
 
AdamR said:
Hi everyone. I am new here and this is my first post.

TUF,
When you say,
"... and they don't push the steel's capacity with uber thin grinds. "
does it mean 1095 steel shouldn't be sharpened to the extreme?
If so, is sharpening with a Fine diamond stone and then stropping using leather and some compound like jeweler's rouge considered too fine for 1095? Should one stop at a fine stone and not strop?

Thanks for the info :)
Adam
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When talking about a thin grind it means angle of eged grinded not the actual sharpening method used. In my experience stropping any steel strengthens the edge and makes it last longer. If you were to sharpen at a 10 degree angle it would be sharper than the standard 20 degree angle per side but not as durable. A very high quality carbon steel like cpm 3v could be sharpened at a thinner angle than a lesser steel and have the same strength. Strop the hell out of your 1095 if you want, it takes a great polish.
 
As with most things, everyone has an opinion and we know what opinions are like. Bob Loveless had an opinion of 1095 and it was :barf:.

IMHO, 1095 is a good basic carbon steel. I has been around for more years then me and that's a lot. 440C used to be the hot steel and still is an excellent blade steel. There are also fad steels that come and go.

Here is one of the better explanations of knife steels.

http://www.knifeart.com/steelfaqbyjo.html

This list is fairly old, so some of the newer steels are not on it.
 
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AdamR said:
Hi everyone. I am new here and this is my first post.

TUF,
When you say,
"... and they don't push the steel's capacity with uber thin grinds. "
does it mean 1095 steel shouldn't be sharpened to the extreme?
If so, is sharpening with a Fine diamond stone and then stropping using leather and some compound like jeweler's rouge considered too fine for 1095? Should one stop at a fine stone and not strop?

Thanks for the info :)
Adam
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No 1095 will take an excellent edge. I won't keep it as long as the harder steels but it is easier to sharpen so it's a trade off.

What I meant was the overall grind on the blade. If you are making a big knife that is a quarter inch thick or thicker steel selection becomes less important to perform at a satisfactory level. The thinner the overall blade becomes the more the additional strength of the tool steels show.

On knives where the blade is relatively thin 1095 will be easier to break than most of the higher performance steels. 1095 is a good knife steel, even a great steel if you keep the blade within the parameters where 1095 performs well.

As a sidenote and not to start a war with anyone but diamond stones are not needed with a steel like 1095 and will probably add to your sharpening time not reduce it.
 
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