Stainless Vs. Tool Steel

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Knife11

Joined
Feb 13, 2001
Messages
750
I'm confused on what the difference is! I visitedhere but is don't really answer this question. I keep hearing about S30V and then I hear about M2. And I've heard of them both being great steals but what is the diffence in performance...I guess I'm asking which is better? :rolleyes:
 
okay so that page basically said that stainless steels rust less...I already knew that! :D There was a lot of useful info there, but none that answers my question...It doesn't even mention S30V!
I like the graph at crucibles site that shows toughness and wear for each steel but it doesn't have one for the stainless steels so there's no way to compair :confused:
 
Originally posted by Knife11
a compairison ;)
Click to expand...

Comparing what? ;)

S30V holds a great edge and is very durable. M2 is the same, but is supposedly more prone to rust. However, I have a Mini-AFCK in M2 and haven't had any problems with rust.
 
So your telling me the one and only difference between S30V and M2 is M2 is more pron to rust!!! You've got to be kidding...I'm asking for real facts like the ones on the crucibles site about wear and toughness. ;)
I wish that crucible had done a graph like that for the stainless stells as well but they didn't so I'm asking here. And what of this statment on the forum FAQ that stainless is more of a crap shoot then tool steel? What is that suppost to mean? :confused:
 
Okay. I don't have any blades in S30V, but I can shed a little bit of light. Any of the stainless steels, when properly heat treated, will be very stain resistant, and should be quite rust proof.

On the other hand, a tool steel such as M2 or D2 will stain when exposed to the elements, no matter how good the heat treat is. For example, I did some night fishing over the summer, and caught some great walleye. I never wiped off the D2 blade afterward. When morning came, I had some patina where either rust or blood was left on the blade. It didn't functionally hurt the blade one bit, but effected the aesthetics.

To tell you the truth, I find the heat treatment to be a lot more important than the type of steel. Go with the steel that the particular manufacturer has the most experience with, and you should be fine.
 
It's really not a simple question to answer. There are a LOT of somewhat conflicting variables to consider when one chooses ANY blade steel. I'm guessing you are considering a production knife like a Benchmade and have the choice of only these two steels for the knife you want. Yes, they are both really good blade steels when properly heat-treated. Both will make a very good knife blade.

First, decide whether you need a high degree of stain resistance for your intended uses of the knife (salt exposure, minimal care requirements, etc). Do you Have to have a stain resistant knife?

Next, consider how tough you want the blade to be. This will depend partly on the size of the blade, its edge geometry, and how you are going to use the knife. M2 will be tougher than S30V.

Both will take and hold a great edge, outperforming many other stainless steels. M2 will probably be easier to resharpen compared to S30V, depending on the heat-treatment. There are some reports of S30V being somewhat brittle, or having edge chipping problems. If left too hard, it can be a problem. I have not heard this complaint abut S30V blades from custom makers, but the production world is different.

I love S30V for smaller thin-bladed folders which will be used to cut, not chop and/or penetrate car doors. It can be ta real bitch to resharpen if heat-treated too hard, or if the edge geometry is too thick. But if you want a somewhat tougher steel, and can handle M2's tendency to rust (and quickly without care and protection), then MAYBE M2 is a better choice.

It is difficult to give you a good answer without knowing a lot more about the particular knife you are considering, your intended uses, your preferences, and your ability to sharpen. In other words, only YOU can decide.

Steel choice is always a personal thing. If the knife is a custom, talk it over with the maker before making a decision. And do not limit your choices to only these two unless you have no other options. There are a great many steels out there with are very very good. There is NO BEST STEEL for all things.

Para, trying to help
 
I'm really just tring to learn about the steels...

I've been at an impass for a while now on my next knife, I am now is search of the perfect knife I don't really like carrying more than one at a time so that means a do all knife... it needs to be big rugged enough to be used as a log splitter but small enough to do intricate cutting tasks...it needs to not look scary but be a good defensive knife...and don't even get me started on serrated or plain edge.
I've been told it's custom time, but I'm not sure even what to ask for I'm no designer...So I'm tring to compile a list of things I like on folder I know of. I'm driving myself crazy with this!

so I digress back to the steels
 
Notice that both Buzz and I mention the importance of the heat-treatment. Since you don't know how the steel is going to be heat-treated, the charts and tables you want will not necessarily help you. Both of these steels are outstanding edge holders. I would guess S30V will be superior to M2 most of the time. But then maybe it will hold its edge so well that you will have a tough time resharpening. If you want a tougher blade, with outstanding edge holding, and don't mind rust issues, then probably go with M2.

If you really want to understand why stainless steel is stainless, and a little bit about why it can be 'more of a crap shoot', read this thread I wrote some time ago: Why is stainless steel 'stainless'

And this one too: Stainless vs Carbon steel

Happy reading. I hope all this infor helps even though neither of these threads specifically compare the two steels in your question. Either way you will have a great knife. Enjoy!

Para
 
You do not have to design the knife to go 'custom'. You and the maker can work together to come up with your 'perfect' knife. You could also buy a 'custom/handmade/ etc' knife ready made from any of the custom knife internet dealers and have it by next week. Look around at knifeart, arizonacustomknives, nordicknives, bladegallery, robertsoncustomcutlery, etc.

Any of the places will probably have something ready to ship that you will be very very happy to own and use.

BTW, I have over thirty Perfect knives and the funny thing is that they are all different. There is No perfect knife for all things.

So, repeat after me:

There is no perfect steel...

There is no perfect knife...

You can never have too many knives...

If you begin to understand why all this is true, you will have learned something indeed. LOL

Para
 
there is no perfect steel?
there is no perfect knife?
I can never have too many knives?
:confused:
Next you'll tell me ALF isn't really an alien :D
 
Hey knife11,


M2 vs S30V – both have about the same edge holding ability with typical heat treatments. M2 is typically hardened 1-2 Rc higher than S30V, so it should be very slightly more resistant to edge roll. Toughness of the M2 at Rc62 is about the same as S30V at Rc 60-61. Of course, S30V is much more rust resistant.

Neither M2 or S30V makes a very good choice for a knife intended to withstand a lot of chopping, prying or abuse. They are best suited, in my opinion, to knives that generally see lighter use such as, gents folders/ pocket knives, hunting knives, kitchen knives (if you take care of them), wood carving knives and fillet knives (S30V).



Originally posted by Knife11
... it needs to be big rugged enough to be used as a log splitter but small enough to do intricate cutting tasks...it needs to not look scary but be a good defensive knife...and don't even get me started on serrated or plain edge.
Click to expand...


For this kind of use CPM3V would make an excellent choice for a custom. For factory knives, I would look for a low alloy steel such as 52100/SR101 or 50100/Carbon V/0170-6C or a plain carbon steel, such as 1095. If you need something stainless, I would go with one of the softer grades such as AUS6.



-Frank
 
this may be heresy, but I am about to lose interest in choosing knives based simply on whatever is the latest and greatest steel. I am finding that, for me, edge geometry, ergonomics, and basic design are better criteria than the type of steel. This of course takes for granted that I try to choose blades by makers or companies that do a good job of heat treating their steel of choice.

I don't care for a knife that is too difficult to sharpen. When they get worse than D2, they are losing their appeal to me. I live on the high plains. The humidity is low. I like to care for my blades. Therefore, I tend to like carbon steel blades. 52100 is my absolute favorite, hands down. It hits the sweet spot between edge holding and ease of sharpening just right. There are steels that hold an edge longer, but they are proportionally quite a bit harder to sharpen, IMO.

In a nutshell, I'd rather have a well designed knife that suits me and the task at with a blade of 1095 than to have a less well designed and suited piece with a higher performing steel. But that's just me.
 
Originally posted by Coonskinner
this may be heresy, but I am about to lose interest in choosing knives based simply on whatever is the latest and greatest steel. I am finding that, for me, edge geometry, ergonomics, and basic design are better criteria than the type of steel. This of course takes for granted that I try to choose blades by makers or companies that do a good job of heat treating their steel of choice.

I don't care for a knife that is too difficult to sharpen. When they get worse than D2, they are losing their appeal to me. I live on the high plains. The humidity is low. I like to care for my blades. Therefore, I tend to like carbon steel blades. 52100 is my absolute favorite, hands down. It hits the sweet spot between edge holding and ease of sharpening just right. There are steels that hold an edge longer, but they are proportionally quite a bit harder to sharpen, IMO.

In a nutshell, I'd rather have a well designed knife that suits me and the task at with a blade of 1095 than to have a less well designed and suited piece with a higher performing steel. But that's just me.
Click to expand...


Hell I live in Florida where the humidity is constantly 70+, and I love tool steels and carbon steels. Isn’t cleaning Knives half the fun?
 
For me it is simply deciding if I need the advantages offered by a stainless steel, or would prefer the advantages of a carbon steel. Edge holding is probably the least important criteria I look for. Toughness and impact resistant are much more important to me whether in a large chopper or even a small folder. I have had stainless blades actually chip when contacting a heavy packing staple :rolleyes: I choose a simple carbon steel almost always. In addition, stainless just lacks character to me and appears sterile.

Stainless is nice if you really need the benfits it brings to the table. But don't forget that the West was conquered and wars were run with plain old carbon steel :D
 
It's news to me that S30V should not be used in blades intended for chopping and hard work. This appears completely at odds with the Blade review of the Simonich Mid-Tech Raven. Of course, the Raven only shopped through 2X4s, hard oak, concrete blocks, and finally mild steel bar. And kept a dandy edge through it all. (It was finally tested to destruction with continued pounding through more mild steel bars.) If that's not tough enough for you...well it is for me. I've only chopped through some aged oak with my raven, but the blade still sliced paper afterward. I'll settle for that!

Oh, yes, not only heat treating but grind and edge configurations also have a big impact on performance. But S30V is a great steel if one knows how to work with it, despite the bulls#$t above about how it should be limited to small knives intended for delicate work.
 
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