Stand out steels, steel that really begs to be used...

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
OK,

What steels are the stand outs? What steels have really great performance?

Like D2 being known for aggressive cutting...

Please give reasons for your nomination.

I am trying to develop the perfect pallette of steels.

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Marion David Poff aka Eye mdpoff@hotmail.com
Coeur D'Alene, ID
http://www.geocities.com/mdpoff

An interesting business oppurtunity... http://www.geocities.com/selouss

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
The high, hollow ground BG-42 on the Chris Reeve Sebenza is easy to sharpen and keeps a keen edge for quite some time. It will cut well even without being at its sharpest. It is also very tough, chip and wear resistant despite the thin bevel.

The flat ground CPM420V on the Darrel Ralph Apogee is much tougher to sharpen, but seems to hold a very sharp edge longer. Very wear resistant without being too brittle, few nicks and no chips so far.

The flat ground ATS-34 on the Lynn Griffith Sniper can also be sharpened with some ease, and gets shaving sharp despite a thicker bevel. More prone to nicking, but I have been downright mean to the blade, and it has proven to be very tough as well. It does not hold its edge as long as the above mentioned steels, but cleans up with ease.

The flat (saber) ground 154CM on the Elishewitz Diablo came to me as sharp as about any knife I have come across. No data yet on from use.

It’s not just the materials being used, but how they are applied. All of these give terrific results, beyond what I need to get the job done. You will get different results using the same steels from different makers, different grinds, different bevels, and different treatments.

Doziers use of D2, Williams Henrys ATS-34, the ATS-34 on the older Sebenzas, all have served me well.

The Holy Grail is a Myth designed to bring us to higher aspirations. Good luck in your search. I will continue to sip from the many fine cups placed before me, and will always be interested in the next coming.


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James Segura
San Francisco, CA
 
MDP,

I LOVE D2 (especially Bob Dozier's fixed blades)!
smile.gif
Holds edge extremely well, it needs only lightly touching up with a Sharpmaker 204 every now and then. I have used my primarily on domestic livestock since I didn't get a deer this year.
frown.gif
I heard one of the premier knife makers say that you could cut up two cows before you needed to sharpen the edge (I can't verify this, BUT if some one wanted to volunteer two, I would try it with one of my Dozier's.....LOL).

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Ray 'md2020'

[This message has been edited by maddog2020 (edited 26 December 1999).]
 
I'd have to agree with the D2, and the Doziers. Bob grinds D2 like no one else, and his knives are scary sharp... and, they stay that way through lots of hard use. Easy to resharpen, tough too.

I think A2 is an extremely tough, "I dare you to use me" kind of steel. Chris Reeves uses it in his one piece line, and those are all some of the toughest knives I've seen and used. John Greco (sp?) also uses A2 in most of his knives. Very tough steel... very sharp knives.

BD42 is used in the Sebenza. I've never seen or felt a sharper knive out of the box. They are pure cutters. The beg to be used on all sorts of daily chores, and sharpen back up again without much of a fight.

M2, as it is used in the BM AFCK is also extremely tough. I've carried one for 18 months or so as my daily user. What a tough, sharp blade! I'm impressed as heck with the steel, and the knife.

They have become my favorite knife steels in a very short amount of time. Hard to go wrong with any of them. If I had to pick just one favorite, it would be D2... awesomely sharp, extremely tough. I wish more custom makers used it.

AJ

[This message has been edited by AJ (edited 26 December 1999).]
 
Marion,

Like you, I enjoy having a selection of knives in premium materials.

Tops on my list would be:

Stellite/Talonite: Not steel, but premium blade material. Holds a keen edge for a long time and doesn't corrode. Apparently maintaining the proper thickness behind the edge is critical for "tough" usage. My Carson and Simonich models are exemplary.

CPM 420V / 440V: Take and hold a very sharp edge and offer good stain resistance. 420V is reputed to be very tough, but I can't yet comment on that since I haven't been too rough on mine.

BG-42: The blade on my Sebenza and Buck 110 take wicked sharp edges. I think this steel speaks for itself considering all of the Sebenza threads.

D2 and A2: Take and hold good edges. A2 is very tough, D2 is nearly stainless. I learned this weekend that D2 can take a while to sharpen, even with diamond hones.

M2: Tough and a very sharp/toothy edge.

52100: Wicked sharp edge and toughness. Low stain resistance, but we take care of our knives.

1075, 1095, Chrome Vanadium: Call me old fashioned, but I like these relatively simple carbon steels. They take and hold a good edge and are relatively easy to maintain.

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Live Free or Die

Some Knife Pix



[This message has been edited by Blues (edited 26 December 1999).]
 
I have used my Madpoets (the late Mel Sorg) in D2 have been more than impressed with sharpness and edge holding.
Lately have been carrying a Larry Chew folder with hollow ground, reverse curve, 420v that is an exceptionally nice blade. Satin finish, at least this example has a magical "slickness" almost like blade is waxed or laquer-coated which seems to make it cut easier. Hard to explain, but for example, while out on a hunt, was preparing some venison , and trying to cut steaks from a boned out, still frozen backstrap. fighting it with a Wegner (ats34) pulled the Chew and it just glided thru- weird superslick sharpness.
I have many ATS34 blades and none of them quite the same qualities- big differences between makers.
So:
good old reliable D2
420v
don't yet have but waiting on knives in 440v and 52100.
 
Marion,

First, I would have to agree with STJAMES as he made some excellent points.
I think that about all the steels mentioned are good for using knives. However, in my opinion, good old simple carbon steels that are forged properly are hard to beat!!
From my point of view, two non-stainless tool steels that really stand out are A-2 & D-2.
 
For toughness and edge holding it is really
hard to beat 5160 and 52100. I haven't tested against bg42 or infi but most of the rest are second place. the reason I haven't tested 42 and infi is because of availability
in this area I might have to break down and
buy a #5 and make one out of 42 in order to
compare. The blade geometry has some to do
with it also. ie..thichness and grind

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http://www.imt.net/~goshawk
Don't walk in tradition just because it feels good!!!!!
Romans 10:9,10
Hebrews 4:12-16
Psalm 91

 
Believe it, or not, I LOVE O-1 tool steel. It is forgiving in the forge and takes a keen edge w/ proper heat-treat. In addition, I am a fan of 1095 and 5160 as well. Rust-schmust, thats what TUF-Cloth is for!
-Redleg out.

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"Blessed is the Lord my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle..." excerpted from Psalms 144.

 
Looking at toughness vs wear resistance a number of steels seem to do well at either but it's hard to find some that do very well at both. Among tool steels I think that the Crucible steels seem do better than most, with the CPM 3V maybe doing the best job of compromise.
 
Livesay and Kabar - 1095
Dozier - D2
Simonich - ATS34
Livesay and Francis - 440C
Reeves - BG42
Benchmade - M2

I own knives with all types of steel, but my fixed blades all beg to be used. My 2 most used folders are my BG42 Sebenza and M2 AFCK they dare me to dull them. I like to use my 440C Francis fixed blades as loaners because I know they hold a great edge and I don't have to worry too much about lack of maintenence on them. I always get asked, "Where can I get one of those?"
 
I have been impressed with the 440-v that spyderco uses in the military and starmate. Really holds an edge and not too difficult to sharpen.

I have a m-2 AFCK on the way. I cant wait to see how it performs.

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Dennis Bible
 
I'm no expert but:

BG42 has been great in my Sebenzas

Some fixed-blades by a fellow named Tilton Bowen in D-2 were extremely tough. We went through 7 (really - 7!) whitetail without sharpening and it did fine.

A-2 in several fixed blades has been good.

And I agree about not worrying about rust, I just take care of my blades.
 
I am kinda late into this conversation, but I really like A2. It is very tough, has a little "stainlessness", and will get as sharp as anything. RJ Martin and Ernest Mayer are great examples.

Coming in second are D2 (Dozier's espescially)for being practically stainless and a good cutter, and 52100 for being exeptionally tough, easy to sharpen and holding an edge.

One thing to note is that I use ceramics to sharpen and it seems that A2 and 52100 both take a more agressive edge with a finer sharpening. I don't know for sure, but I am sure that is related to grain size.

Actually, a forged, differentiallt treated 52100 blade may be superior to A2, just harder to find.

-Bart
 
For performance at a bargain, ATS-55, I'm not sure about rust resistance, but seems to take a finer edge than 34, and a little easier to sharpen.
For all out sharpness on a small blade, CPM420V
For a fixed blade, gotta love 52100 for sharpness and edge-holding, 5160 for toughness.
I also really like Damasteel for attractive steel which cuts!
Aaron

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amacks@nist.gov
Don't forget to pay your taxes...they eventually become my knives:)

 
So,

5160 and 52100 for forged and large stuff.

A2 and D2 for tool steels. M2

ATS-34, 154CM and BG-42 in stainless.

420V, 440V and 3V for the crucible.

1095, a classic

INFI, Stellite 6BH, Talonite for the non-steel.

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Marion David Poff aka Eye mdpoff@hotmail.com
Coeur D'Alene, ID
http://www.geocities.com/mdpoff

An interesting business oppurtunity... http://www.geocities.com/selouss

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
Or let;s put this another way...

If a maker offered those steels mentioned, would he be offering a full pallette?

And what would the smallest complete pallette be?

MDP
 
There are already quite enough species around in the market. However, there is one I do really feel like mentioning, though I am still waiting to see one blade made of this ...

MARAGING steel (Martensitic Aging Steel). Well, the maximum hardness of which can never go beyond 60Rc, and may not allow it to hold the sharpest edge, but the crystal refinement of this steel occurs durring which aging!! (Simply speaking, Fine Crystal Structure is good for the mechanical strength of the blade. For a normal steel blade, the finest crystal structure occurs when it's just done with which tempering. As times go by, after some years of heavy uses, crystals have a tendency to get coarsen...lose temper, lose strength, and even more susceptible to metal fatigue. Bad!) This helps extending the service life of the product blade by far!

I am a sport fencer, and have a fencing blade made of maraging steel, which has already lasted for 3 years (a usual blade lasts for EXACTLY 1 year for me, ALWAYS breaks in a Leon Paul Cup competition held on every Autumn!).

I've heard that some golf clubs linings are switching to maraging steel in replacement to the original Titanium Alloy lining in order to save weight (well...much less material need to be used so become less weight) and give better strength...but honestly, I know nothing about golf so not absolutely sure if that's a good move.

It is the second most expensive group of industrial alloy (the most expensive group would be Nickel base alloy used in aeroplanes' turbine blades), but known as one of the easiest to use wrought (forge) alloys....well....industrially. Don't know how about a blacksmith forge!

In addition, due to the heavy content of Nickel in this steel, it may act naturally as a stain-less(stain less, not stainless!). Could be a good new for lazy blade collectors!

Please comment.
 
I have nothing new to say but I'll say it anyway- CPM440V and ATS-34 have always served me well. And of course, I have heard great things about BG42 and 154CM.

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"If you come to a fork in the road, take it"
 
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