Stan's Monster Cuda Maxx lock work

STR

Knifemaker/Moderator
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Everytime I see one of these monsters I just stand back and say wow! Crocodile Dundee would be proud! Now thats a big a$$ folder! This one has a lock travel problem Stan wants adjusted so we'll be looking at that soon to see about refreshing it to a new contact. Hopefully it won't give me any trouble getting it apart. Some of these have been problematic that way due to the way they are put together. I'll know shortly.

Stan, its the good thing you can carry this where you live because of your past credentials and all but I can't imagine trying to explain to an officer why I was carrying such a thing if it was found on me. What a beast these things are to behold! Lots of excess here for sure.

Looks like either Camillus was drilling and threading it for tip up from the factory or someone did this for the owner but the lock stop to prevent over travel looks factory. I have been sent quite a few of these for clip flips and do not ever recall seeing this stop on any of the ones I've had here.

STR
 
I think that one was mine. . . Dirk from the forums did the work for me - including adding the lockstop. He did an excellent job, and was recommended by Darrel Ralph. I have had it apart myself, and it was no trouble.
 
Hi STR

When I got my clip flipped by Darryl Ralph the stop was added on. It's a nice little piece and I think for a while there were available at knifekits too

While I love my Cuda the lock is a PIA for me at least. I've already had it "fixed" once and it's almost falling to the other scale again. Maybe I'll get another stud made up to adjust the lock again.

Or just keep it in the collection and not carry it as my wavable knive :(
 
Hard flicking can take its toll over time but I would not worry too much about it if the lock up is still solid with no vertical play in the blade.

The lock stop is a very good idea although I have said many times that this knife is one of the few that I feel was done right in the lock relief cut out to spring the lock. These are plenty thick at the cut out and look to be both hovering around .080 or so in thickness on this .160 thick stock of handle, and not paper thin like you see in so many other so called heavy duty folders. I think when someone reads 'heavy duty' or 'hard use' that they should expect the lock to be stout personally. Not to put down your complaint my friend, but that type lock up should be par for the course on anything this stout IMO.

It seems so many makers cotton to the easy opening guys that want to sit around flicking their knives out and closing them all day even when there is no need to use the knife and when they make the lock too strong they get complaints about it I guess. Thats what I figure happens anyway. I can't imagine why a combat knife or tactical frame lock for a hard core tough guy needs to have a whimp lock on it with a lock relief cut out taken wide and all the way down to .032 thinness on a .125 or thicker lock but that seems to be the case more than seeing them stout like you'd expect.

Personally I think Daryl has the right idea here and that any tough guy should be able to handle a mans lock if you pull your knife out when you need it and not make it a habit to flick it all the time like chewing on a fingernail.

End rant though before I get into trouble. :D

STR
 
Here is a nice shot of a good lock relief thickness in a frame lock making for a stout lock. Of course this is my opinion and not necessarily the same as other makers obviously.

Here we have the Cuda Max showing .069 -.070 thickness left after the cut is made in two spots, and my own custom made Kershaw Blur frame lock conversion showing pretty much the same thing.

I've never understood why so many makers and companies take the lock relief cut to such extreme thinness. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63384&d=1164952855 but yet its done on a great many of them.

Yet you see knives sold like the little Buck Strider 881 liner lock with a .070 liner bent to spring the lock with no relief cut in the lock whatsoever while still remaining perfectly useable, easy to manipulate and and plenty strong showing plainly that a relief any thinner than this is simply not necessary and in my opinion probably not even advisable in a 'hard use' folder. Then again as I recall my Buck/Strider 880 First Production Run in BG42 blade steel had a .080 thick liner lock and it didn't have a relief cut in it either. I mean do you see a relief anywhere? Go figure.

STR
 
I put the lock wear down to me waving the monster too often and too hard.

However, I still wish it would wear better ;) Nothing like a Cuda Maxx waving open :D
 
Steve,

First off, I missed the news for a few days (I do that sometimes) and had no idea of the terrible flooding going on in your parts. I hope you and yours are well and haven't had too many problems.

Yep, that knife did belong to Mr. Finkenstein and I thank him for selling it to me. Lovely knife and I do like all that Dirk did with the knife. I agree that camillus got this one right. I had a 5.5 maxx and was considering purchasing the 7.0 maxx when it was first on the market but, my main concern was the length of the blade and the leverage that would work against the knife. I basically felt the smaller of the two would be stronger. Sufficed to say, I'm very happy with the 7.0 maxx and wished I'd purchased a few if I'd known that camillus was goin outta business. The lockup is strong and I'm glad that they stepped up the liners to .160 as compared to the .125 on the smaller one. I prefer locks that are harder to close and will never complain about the milled relief being too thick unless it affects the spring and travel of the lock.

I'm sure with Steve's capabilities, the adjustment will be done in a bat of the eye. Just outta curiousity Steve, I'm sure some forumites, myself included, would be interested in knowing your process if you would care to share your secrets. I know from some reading and speaking with makers that they either peen or squeeze the liner to extrude the lockface.

Funny enough, I normally don't worry about getting stopped and have many times, but, with this monster.... ;)
 
Well, its a controversial fix Stan, at least as far as I've always been concerned and I can't say its my favorite way to bring the lock of an integral style back to a better contact to take out vertical play but it does work and give an otherwise ready to retire lock some new life. How long? No way to know. Just use it. At least this is the case for most.

Replacing the stop pin is another way that I tend to prefer but with a knife made this way where the stop is in the position of a thumb stud in a semi circle stop on the handle made to fit that size the only other way is to remake the lock once it travels all the way across and develops a small amount of blade play.

I know of several manufacturers that do this repair. Well, I guess I should say I've known of several that are guilty of it because I've witnessed it first hand in my own knives sent back to me from them and its a bit hard to explain so I'll just show you. Some do it differently than others too and its just kind of up to who does it I guess and what they feel works best. Its another one of those behind the scenes things that go on with cutlers that is little talked about. Many of the companies probably don't want it out. I can't say. I think you make choices and you live with them though and that if its done its done and anyone bringing it up should not be talked badly about, hint hint, but if that upsets someone well, take it somewhere else to complain I don't want to hear about it and if a repair shop wants to get mad at me, take a number and stand in line pal.:rolleyes:

How I found out about this is simply from my own first liner lock that travelled all the way across the tang on a knife I carried for a while and used a lot.

Here is a scanned picture of it. Now I don't have to tell any of the guys here that I know my knives intimately. I had taken this knife apart numerous times and I knew what was in there. This is not something that was there before I mailed the knife in to the company I assure you. This was something that at the time I didn't really know how to fix for sure so I mailed it in and it was a good long while ago. Years in fact, and since then I've sent another in and got the same repair.

The knife had a warranty and I figured hey, its time for a new lock right? Well, that isn't what happened. I mailed the knife with money to EKI for the repair and a few weeks later got it back with a lock that stuck really bad. I mean thumb pain sticking and peeling skin with cuss words to close. Oh it caught early now and seemed fixed in that regard but just sticky as hell. I thought they put a new lock in it until the first time I took it apart to clean it and saw this. I called about it right away with a WTF kind of question and was told it was a 'standard liner and frame lock repair in the industry'. End story.

Now you can't see it here obviously that well, but what this is is a peened area on the lock face above the detent ball to squish out some metal to hit the contact area earlier bringing the lock back to a contact that looks like it did new. What you don't know is that the peen was so strong in this example that I could if I wanted to, push the circle of the peen right out the other side leaving a hole like it was drilled only it was punched. Thats right the smith literally punched the mark clean through the .060 lock to where the top circle here is a separate section on this lock that I can push back and forth if I want to.

I was not too happy about it but what do you do? They said it was fine. I retired the knife but it does still lock up solid and the sticking is far less than it was so in that way they are correct.

Anyway, since then I've seen it from Gerber and a few other companies we all know and use a lot of products from, yes some of the ones in your own pocket too and all I can say is it does work. Its not the best way in my opinion but in the case of your Cuda it did take out the touch of play it had and tighten it up. I could probably take it in more since I did it more toward the edge but in my experience its best to leave it once you get close. Besides the idea here is accept that the lock is getting close to meeting its useable service life so I think most look at it like, what the hell can it hurt now?

I am not going to kid you Stan. I don't like the method. But I just fill the orders. It did make the lock tighten up but its not a punch clean through the lock like my liner lock is however there is an indent or tweak or whatever you want to call it on the lock now. And yours doesn't stick as bad as it would from others I don't think but you may need a lead pencil as it will now and then for a time anyway. The lock on these bigger heavier sprung knives can still travel as far or close also, but the play is the focus and the idea is that as long as its bumping it enough to stick it was a success and you have good contact.

Its not traveling all the way in to where it partially leaves the blade now but its about as good as I can get it without totally ruining the lock and I don't want to go there.

Have I come across that this repair always makes me nervous?? I hope so because it does and I don't like getting them.

Anyway, thats it in a nut shell description.


STR
 
Well, that's something I may try on my own Cuda.

It's already had the thumb studs reworked to adjust the lock engagement.

Thanks for the info :)
 
Be very careful. I've found in the experimenting that I did on my own frame and liner locks that it takes some finesse and is very easy to go too far as well as hit the lock so hard that it breaks. Titanium is malable to an extent but many of these factory lock faces have been hardened some so it is more challenging. Its also less noticed results on the thicker locks and easier on a liner lock to do this repair, if I dare call this technique a repair at all. :confused:.

STR
 
Advice/caution understood and appreciated :D

As it is I don't carry the Cuda due to the lock engaging way too late.

I'm also in the same boat as you regarding this "repair". It's more a field fix than anything.

Did you get the PDF regarding the laminates and their respective strengths I sent you?
 
I did and I apologize. I meant to thank you for that. I dropped the ball on that. My bad.

STR
 
Steve,

Thanks for the detail as always. Yes, I had a certain presumption of what was going to be done. Forgetful me, forgot to ask if you needed a "punch" to peen it or if you were just gonna take hammer to the flat of the ti w/o indenting it. Yes, I've seen these "punch" extrusions done, though, mainly on forged handguards for making it "fit properly" when there was lil too much gap. I was hoping that it wouldn't be necessary to punch the ti and only hammer it (if its workable that way), but I did take into consideration that the lockface was hardened. I guess thats why I was interested as to your method of how you do it. I guess there sometimes is only a "simple fix" to a problem where no technology is required or plausible.

I knew if you did punch/indent it, it wouldn't be all the way thru. Definitely give ya waaay more credit than that. And the honesty is appreciated. Sorry that you had a putzed up lock on your EKI. Yes, I know better than to ask "well how long is my framelock gonna last dude?" and will enjoy the action of it as long as its good to go. Much thanks.
 
Well, I didn't do it the EKI method> I did it more like I've seen from Camillus and Schrade on locks I've noted being repaired from them where one punch, the top one (the detent end being top) is taken deeper to bring a tad of metal out toward the middle of the thickness as close as it can be done without being noticed on the outside, but when I say top note I'm really actually no where near the detent ball with the punch but simply trying to convey that one punch is below while one is above and one is deep while one is toward the edge more. You don't want it touching below the area Camillus has left sticking out more on this particular folder. Anyway, with this one being done more toward the edge at the bottom and the toward the middle at the top it helps to cover the entire contact area in two places that way to squish out more contact for you. This has typically worked better for me on thicker knives which were also the type locks I first saw it on. So, its not quite the same but basically the same idea as that used in a liner lock.

Oh, by the way. The companies do this same adjustment on lockbars for lockback folders from time to time also. One hash mark on each side to, as you say make up for a gap too greatly out of spec. It works nicely usually.

STR
 
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