Starter File Set for Blade Modifications

[WhittlinAway]

A couple of threads over on the Traditionals subforum have inspired me and I want to try my hand at modifying a few pocket knife blades. My first project will be converting the spey blade of an old Camillus stockman into a pen blade. I'm really excited to dig in.

I've seen several recommendations to use files—as opposed to, say, a belt sander or Dremel tool—for this sort of work, especially while learning. That makes sense to me. I've never done any metal work, though, and am a bit overwhelmed at the options available. I'd appreciate some guidance on putting together a starter set of files that I can use for projects like this.

Here are some more details of what I'm looking to do in case they help narrow down the field:

- Traditional folders with blades of about 3" or less, primarily carbon steel like 1095
- Reshaping and restoration: spey to pen, clip to wharncliffe/sheepsfoot, adding or extending a sharpening notch
- As a bonus, perhaps eventually shaping replacement Micarta scales (are files appropriate for that?), but that's not a necessity now if it would require files not needed for the blades

What type(s) and shape(s) of files do I need at a minimum to get started and what is the purpose of each? Do I need different grits (or whatever the equivalent is for files)? Any brand recommendations? I'd like to keep it simple and inexpensive in case I am surprised and find that blade modification isn't for me. On the other hand, I don't want to waste money by buying something that is of poor quality and I'll just end up replacing in the near future.

That's a lot of questions, I know, and I may not even be asking the right ones. Any guidance and advice is very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg

 

[killgar]

I do a lot of knife modding. And I must have over a hundred files. But you don't need that many.

For working on softer steels I use standard metal files. How much steel I'm going to take off determines what grit file I use. For the type of work you've described I would start with a flat medium file, then finish with fine, then use sandpaper. Such files should be available at any big name hardware store (I get some of mine from Home Depot). If I need something more unique I go to McMaster.com.

For sandpaper I start with 220 grit paper, then finish with 400 for a satin finish. I get my sandpaper at Walmart in multi-grit packs.

For harder steels I use diamond files. I have a few sets I bought off Amazon for $10 a piece (item number SE 74330DF). The set includes 6 different grits (40, 80, 150, 240, 400, 600).

For round filing (sharpening choil/notch), I use round /needle files. On soft steel I use regular files, diamond on hard steels. You can find a variety round/needle files on Amazon, or elsewhere on the internet. I've also seen sets of small files sold in big name hardware stores that contain a round file. I also use round chainsaw-sharpening files purchased from McMaster.com. I prefer those for some tasks because they have a fine grit and are straight their entire length rather than tapered towards the tip. I have several round/needle files from 1/16" diameter up to 3/8" diameter.

To make or enlarge a choil on REALLY hard steel I use a Dremel with a grinding bit of appropriate size. Very slowly to avoid overheating.

For working micarta I use regular files (the same I use for soft steel). I use course grit for heavy removal, then medium for finish work, then sandpaper.

And here's an example of my work. Top pic is the original knife. Bottom pic is what I made it into.

 

[WhittlinAway]

I do a lot of knife modding. And I must have over a hundred files. But you don't need that many.

...

Thank you for the detailed response and taking the time to address all of my questions. It's extremely helpful and appreciated!

Greg

 

[jrawk]

good posts guys. I've been wanting to know the same thing.

 

[gonebad395]

Killgar awesome explanation man detailed and easy to understand and as always your mod looks great.

 

[killgar]

Glad I could help. And thanks for the compliment Gonebad395.

A few pieces of advice-

Standard metal files are one directional, meaning they only work on the push. Use gentle pressure. Pressing down hard won't get the job done faster, it will only wear out the file faster. Tap the tip of the file on a hard metal surface every few strokes to knock out particles of steel from in between the teeth. If you were going to be filing softer metals (un-hardened steel, aluminum) I'd suggest a steel wire brush or a "file brush" to clean metal particles from the teeth. But if you're filing hardened steel, and looking to save money, I don't think you need one.

Diamond files on the other hand are multi-directional, meaning you can use them in any direction. Diamond files can be pushed and pulled across a piece of steel forward to back or side to side. But just like standard files, use gentle pressure. Likewise, tap the file every now and then to knock out debris. I have also found that rubbing a diamond file across the lower leg of my ratty work jeans does an effective job of cleaning it.

I would advise practicing on a knife that isn't of great personal value.

All of the 1095 blades I've worked on were soft enough for standard files. But I can't speak for all 1095 blades.

On making micarta scales, I started out with nothing more than a standard hacksaw, a few files, sandpaper, and a vise. I used the hacksaw to rough-cut the scale shapes out of a sheet of micarta, then shaped with files, then finished with sandpaper. Today I also use a 12" disc sander to save time and work doing the shaping, but such a tool isn't required.

A drill will be required though if you are going to be pinning the scales to the knife, or attaching them with screws. I would recommend a drill press for such drilling because it will allow for more precision and produce straight holes. But if the scales are going to be glued-epoxied to the liners without pins or screws, then a drill will not be necessary.

A vise is good for securing a piece of material for working on it, but the same work can also be performed cheaper by using a C-clamp to attach the piece to a table, bench or a large enough piece of wood to serve as a base.

When using a clamp or vise to make micarta scales you want to take precautions to avoid marring the surface of the material. I generally cover the "front" side of the micarta (the side that will be facing out from the knife) with masking tape, and then place a piece of soft wood, or a piece of leather between the micarta and the clamp or vise on both sides.

If you are going to be working (filing, sanding) on a folder blade that is still installed in the handle, I'd recommend wrapping the handle and pivot area really good with masking tape to keep tiny particles of steel from falling off the file and landing in the pivot or between the liners.

 

[TravisH]

I used a set of diamond files and chainsaw sharpening files from Harbor Frieght to clean up nicks and broken tips on 1095CV, VG10, and S30V.

And to cut the jimping into this Kabar Becker BK10 in 1095CV.

 

[killgar]

I used a set of diamond files and chainsaw sharpening files from Harbor Frieght to clean up nicks and broken tips on 1095CV, VG10, and S30V.

And to cut the jimping into this Kabar Becker BK10 in 1095CV.

Nice work. Very even and uniform. Looks factory professional. :thumbup:

 

[WhittlinAway]

Glad I could help. And thanks for the compliment Gonebad395.

A few pieces of advice-

...

And, thank you again! I suspect you've saved me—and others—quite a bit of time and frustration while getting started.

 

[TravisH]

Nice work. Very even and uniform. Looks factory professional. :thumbup:

Thx! And this was only my 2nd attempt at jimping.

But, with the encouragement and guidance provided by you and other forum 'experts', the results were 'factory'. :thumbup:

And if *I* can do it, so can others.

 

[WhittlinAway]

Standard metal files are one directional, meaning they only work on the push. Use gentle pressure. Pressing down hard won't get the job done faster, it will only wear out the file faster.

Does it make any difference whether the file is single-cut or cross-cut? Is one better than the other for this sort of work?

Thanks,
Greg

 

[killgar]

Does it make any difference whether the file is single-cut or cross-cut? Is one better than the other for this sort of work?

Thanks,
Greg

Double-cut files (crosshatched grooves) will remove more material faster than single-cut due to having more "teeth". But I would say that depending on what you are doing, the grit of the file is more important than the cut. Most of mine are single-cut because they were only available in single-cut.

In my opinion, there's no reason to choose double-cut over single. If you're looking to save money, and if single-cut are less expensive and easily available, then I'd recommend single-cut. Single-cut works just fine for modding knives.

 

[WhittlinAway]

Double-cut files (crosshatched grooves) will remove more material faster than single-cut due to having more "teeth". But I would say that depending on what you are doing, the grit of the file is more important than the cut. Most of mine are single-cut because they were only available in single-cut.

In my opinion, there's no reason to choose double-cut over single. If you're looking to save money, and if single-cut are less expensive and easily available, then I'd recommend single-cut. Single-cut works just fine for modding knives.

Thanks for the explanation. I haven't shopped around too much yet, but when I started to look I noticed the difference and didn't know if it mattered.

The old, neglected Camillus 67 that I picked up for cheap on eBay for the purpose of practicing arrived today. I'm looking forward to getting some files this weekend and giving it a go. If the blades turn out nicely, then I'll have to learn how to replace scales next. If not, then very little lost and I'll keep practicing before I move on to a knife I care about.

Thanks again for all the help.

Greg

 

[WhittlinAway]

So, I gave it a try today. Here's what I started with, the spey blade of an old, neglected Camillus 67 stockman:



And, here's where it stands after a bit of cleanup and a bunch of quality learning time with the files:



I still need to sharpen it, and I may tweak the bottom edge a bit--in particular I'd like to get a smaller needle file and clean up the choil--but I'm pretty happy with the result as it is. Constructive criticism on areas for improvement are very welcome.

Killgar, thank you so much for all the advice. Armed with it, I felt pretty confident jumping in.

Greg

 

[killgar]

So, I gave it a try today. Here's what I started with, the spey blade of an old, neglected Camillus 67 stockman:

View attachment 626190

And, here's where it stands after a bit of cleanup and a bunch of quality learning time with the files:

View attachment 626189

I still need to sharpen it, and I may tweak the bottom edge a bit--in particular I'd like to get a smaller needle file and clean up the choil--but I'm pretty happy with the result as it is. Constructive criticism on areas for improvement are very welcome.

Killgar, thank you so much for all the advice. Armed with it, I felt pretty confident jumping in.

Greg

You're very welcome. And that's a very nice job you did. I see no cause for criticism. It NOW looks like a very usable/multi-functional blade, nice and pointy.

If you're looking for any suggestions on small needle files, I can recommend a few of the smaller ones available (around 1/16" diameter). I'll double check on their product numbers and come back to report.

 

[killgar]

I checked on the item numbers of the extra-small needle files I use, and they are as follows-

For diamond files, do a search on Amazon for "FIL-974.00". It's a ten file set including a round file.

For regular needle files, I bought a set from Knifekits.com, the item number is "KK70001 Precision Micro File Kit", it's the one with the blue handle.

Amazon has a similar set of regular needle files listed as "Commando Precision File". It also comes with an aluminum handle.

I have two of the diamond sets, and I have the set with handle from Knifekits.com and a set of replacement files for it.

If I were going to recommend just one set of files I would recommend the diamond set because they can be used on both soft and hard steels. But the handle that comes with the other two sets really comes in handy, and it works for the diamond files as well. Unfortunately the diamond files don't come with a handle.

And while Knifekits.com is a sponsored Bladeforums vendor, I have to mention that their shipping charges can be ridiculously high. I placed a small order a short while back and the cheapest shipping option they gave me was around $12. I think they charge a higher shipping price on small orders than on larger orders. That's been my experience with them over the years.

 

[WhittlinAway]

You're very welcome. And that's a very nice job you did. I see no cause for criticism. It NOW looks like a very usable/multi-functional blade, nice and pointy.

Thanks! I just finished sharpening it and I'm very happy with how it performed whittling a bit on a block of basswood.

If you're looking for any suggestions on small needle files, I can recommend a few of the smaller ones available (around 1/16" diameter). I'll double check on their product numbers and come back to report.

Yes, please. I'd appreciate it. I got a 3-piece set of needle files (round, triangle, rectangle) from the hardware store, but they ended up being too large.

BTW, for the main work I bought two 8" rectangular single cut mill files: one medium and one fine. They were quite easy to use once I had an idea of what to do with them and performed well. I used a brass brush that I already had to clean them as I worked.

 

[WhittlinAway]

I checked on the item numbers of the extra-small needle files I use, and they are as follows-
...

Thanks. I'll check them out.

 

[OttoViking]

A couple of threads over on the Traditionals subforum have inspired me and I want to try my hand at modifying a few pocket knife blades. My first project will be converting the spey blade of an old Camillus stockman into a pen blade. I'm really excited to dig in.

I've seen several recommendations to use files—as opposed to, say, a belt sander or Dremel tool—for this sort of work, especially while learning. That makes sense to me. I've never done any metal work, though, and am a bit overwhelmed at the options available. I'd appreciate some guidance on putting together a starter set of files that I can use for projects like this.

Here are some more details of what I'm looking to do in case they help narrow down the field:

- Traditional folders with blades of about 3" or less, primarily carbon steel like 1095
- Reshaping and restoration: spey to pen, clip to wharncliffe/sheepsfoot, adding or extending a sharpening notch
- As a bonus, perhaps eventually shaping replacement Micarta scales (are files appropriate for that?), but that's not a necessity now if it would require files not needed for the blades

What type(s) and shape(s) of files do I need at a minimum to get started and what is the purpose of each? Do I need different grits (or whatever the equivalent is for files)? Any brand recommendations? I'd like to keep it simple and inexpensive in case I am surprised and find that blade modification isn't for me. On the other hand, I don't want to waste money by buying something that is of poor quality and I'll just end up replacing in the near future.

That's a lot of questions, I know, and I may not even be asking the right ones. Any guidance and advice is very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg

Hello!
Just want's to be one of many who says, Nice first try. Good esthetic in the bladeform.
This is the reason why I wont leave this forum! The sheer magnitude of knowlage is mindboggling! [emoji2]
Best of luck with the projects ahead.
Johan

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