Starting out - Blademaster Usage Advice

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vaaccess

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Dec 7, 2015
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So thanks to everyone that has seen/replied to my previous threads. I started wanting to buy a new kitchen knife, then was redirected to learning how to sharpen first. Made complete sense.

After spending ridiculous amounts of time reading and watching videos, I decided to go with the BladeMaster system to start my sharpening journey.

The system I got has the following hones: Ceramic Extra Course, Ceramic Course, Diamond Medium, Diamond Fine, Diamond Extra Fine

I tried using it on a basic pocket knife at 24-degrees, using the Ceramic Extra Course first, then Diamond Medium, then Diamond Extra Fine. My first attempt was a miss. I'm either not using the stones in the right order, not using all the stones I need to, or I'm not doing each stage long enough.

I've read about feeling the burr curl over, but just can't feel it. I'm not sure if that's because I'm just not good enough yet or if I didn't do it right or do it long enough, etc.

I've read the instructions and watched a couple of YouTube videos and feel like in general the technique I'm using is reasonably good. (I'm sure I have plenty to learn.)

One question I had was in regards to water vs oil vs dry grinding. Maybe that's part of the problem? The almost new kit I got didn't come with any oil...I do have some mineral oil in the house, though I could also get blade oil if needed...

I guess I'm curious to get thoughts on:
  • Which stones to use, when?
  • Oil or not?
  • How much should I use each stone as I progress?
  • At which point in the process can I test to see if I'm doing it right or not? (I feel like I should feel the sharpness early on.)

Thanks again for all the help. Learning, making progress, but have a long way to go!
 
"The system I got has the following hones: Ceramic Extra Course, Ceramic Course, Diamond Medium, Diamond Fine, Diamond Extra Fine

I tried using it on a basic pocket knife at 24-degrees, using the Ceramic Extra Course first, then Diamond Medium, then Diamond Extra Fine. My first attempt was a miss. I'm either not using the stones in the right order, not using all the stones I need to, or I'm not doing each stage long enough.
"
Click to expand...

Something a little strange in that described sequence. I'm not familiar with the 'Blademaster' set, though it appears similar to Lansky's kits; but rarely, if ever, would diamond hones be used AFTER ceramic hones. Usually the reverse is the sequence (diamond first, then ceramics for finishing), in sets which combine the two abrasive types. Diamond hones are almost always much more aggressive in removing metal than are ceramic hones in such kits, so it's normal they'd be utilized first. Ceramics are usually described according to a completely different performance scale, as they're almost always much less aggressive than diamond, and used for finishing/polishing. A little more info would be helpful in exactly which kit you've got (model #, etc).

I'm betting the sequence should be: Diamond medium, diamond fine, diamond extra fine, ceramic extra-coarse, ceramic coarse.

More often than not, when learning new sharpening systems, or sharpening in general, most problems come in not forming a burr with the very first stage, which is how the edge is verified to be fully shaped, apexed and ready for subsequent refining steps. It's likely you're encountering that issue. BUT, there may also be complications created by not using the hones in the correct sequence, as I suspect is the case here.


David
 
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Don't move up your progressions until you have a burr, so stay on the course stone until burr then med until you get a burr and so on. Diamonds and ceramics require you to use little pressure and I bet you are pushing too hard.
How sharp are you getting? Did it improve? What are you testing sharpness with?
 
If I ignore what the hones are made of, the Ceramic ones feel MUCH more aggressive/course. From feel alone, going in the order I mentioned makes "logical" sense, but to your point maybe the diamond vs ceramic is causing me problems.

I tried sharpening another knife, a Gerber survival knife. Probably a pretty awful blade, but good to start with. Anyway, I just went with the diamond progressions. I ended up being able to cut a sheet of paper pretty well, which was nice.

Then I moved on to one of my henckel kitchen knives and success was mixed again. I think to your point I could be pushing too hard and not going until I can feel the burr. I'll go back to trying it again in a bit. Family was looking at me weird as I sharpened the knives, so will wait a bit. haha
 
Use a sharpie to check if you're reaching the apex. You should be able to get an edge that slices paper cleanly with even the coarsest stone. It could simply be that even your coarse stone may not be coarse enough to form a burr. The Spyderco Sharpmaker had the same problem with regards to their "coarse" ceramic rods. I generally use water as a lubricant on my manual sharpening stuff. Better than dry, not as messy as oil.
 
vaaccess said:
If I ignore what the hones are made of, the Ceramic ones feel MUCH more aggressive/course. From feel alone, going in the order I mentioned makes "logical" sense, but to your point maybe the diamond vs ceramic is causing me problems.
I tried sharpening another knife, a Gerber survival knife. Probably a pretty awful blade, but good to start with. Anyway, I just went with the diamond progressions. I ended up being able to cut a sheet of paper pretty well, which was nice.

Then I moved on to one of my henckel kitchen knives and success was mixed again. I think to your point I could be pushing too hard and not going until I can feel the burr. I'll go back to trying it again in a bit. Family was looking at me weird as I sharpened the knives, so will wait a bit. haha
Click to expand...

What do the kit's instructions say for the sequence? I'm not currently seeing any of these ceramic + diamond combinations listed in web descriptions for these kits (by Frost, I assume?). They seem to market either stand-alone diamond kits, or 'standard' or 'deluxe' kits with non-diamond hones, none of which are described as including both diamond and ceramic in one kit (in fact, I don't see 'ceramic' used in any of their descriptions). It sounds as if you've got something of a hybrid/mixed set, and I wonder if that mix is by design or by accident.

I've not seen or heard of any 'ceramic' hones that coarse in kits such as these. They may not be ceramic at all, but perhaps a standard aluminum oxide set ('corundum' by another name, such as found in similar 'standard' and 'deluxe' kits from Lansky and Gatco). If they're just standard aluminum oxide/corundum hones, even the coarser ones won't cut steel as aggressively as something like a medium diamond, in spite of 'feeling' coarser.


David
 
Yeah, I think I have a mixed set. It is from Froat. The course hone is labeled BM-C. So maybe I should just stick to the diamond ones?

Using the sharpie is a great idea.

Btw. When starting with a knife I haven't sharpened before, how do I best determine the previous sharpened angle?

Thanks!
 
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vaaccess said:
Yeah, I think I have a mixed set. It is from Froat. The course hone is labeled BM-C. So maybe I should just stick to the diamond ones?

Using the sharpie is a great idea.

Btw. When starting with a knife I haven't sharpened before, how do I best determine the previous sharpened angle?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

That's what I'd do, at least for now. It's a safe bet the diamond hones are fully capable of the task; the others are a bit of a mystery to me, and it may be best to experiment with them later, by themselves on a finished edge, to see how they change it. Once you can see how they perform, relative to the diamond, it may be easier to figure out where they'd fit in a sequence of all the hones (or if they fit at all).

You can use the Sharpie with one of your finer hones to set up & match the angle of your existing edge. Just ink the bevels, then adjust the setting of hone's rod in the knife clamp and the positioning of the blade in the clamp, so the hone is evenly (or nearly so) removing ink from the full width of the bevels when you lightly draw the hone across them. When you see that, it verifies the setup is closely matched to the knife's bevel angles; it likely won't be dead perfect, but it should be fairly close. I recommend using a finer (least aggressive) hone for this, so the edge won't get too damaged if the setup isn't matched up right.


David
 
I stopped using the "other" hones and stuck to the diamond ones. They seem to work like a champ.

I'm finding the 19 and 15 angles to work great now...I think I was using too much pressure in the beginning. I used a pairing knife to cut a lime tonight and it was like cutting butter. Holy crap... :)

I know I still have plenty to learn, but at least I'm feeling good about what I've got to this point. Thanks for the help!
 
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