Starting the process towards JS/MS..advice needed

David Schott

David Schott

Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
3,041
Hello,
Just recently got a nice 200+ pound peter wright anvil and have started my forging career. Until this point, ive been doing stock removal for a few years but have always felt a draw towards working with hot steel. id rather move steel than create steel grindings, if you know what i mean.

Forging really has me caught up in a whirlwind at this point and i feel that if i am to learn and progress, i may as well have a defined goal. To me, thats shooting for my JS. Ive joined the ABS so its a matter of time and practice before I am ready or able to test. Ive made stock removal blades that would pass the JS tests but now its a matter of doing it with a forged blade.

Questions:
What stock do most use for bowie-sized knives? Round, square, bar? What dimensions?

What steel is most easilly found in those stock sizes that is suitable for forging and creating differentially hardened blades? Im thinking it must be mainly 1095, O-1, 5160, 1080, W2, 52100? I would love to stick to 10XX series for the hamon since I have become somewhat proficient at that process during HT.

I have a good stock of 1/4"x1" 1084 that ive been forging on, but cant really forge it out to the size I am shooting for going forward (8-10" blades 1/5-2" wide) though its really nice for the other 75% of knife sizes and whips up a beautiful hamon fairly easilly.

Anything others could offer would be great in terms of their process/history towards JS/MS. I have all the tools and drive, now its just paying my dues and repetition/practice!
 
If things are still the same, you have a 3 year wait after joining to test for JS. If you go down to Washington and take the Intro course, they waive a year!
Visit as many Bladesmiths as will have you!
I personally don't use any bar stock. It's practically a knife already! Bang a point on it and you're done. And, as you pointed out yourself, you are limited in how much you can MOVE the steel, which, in itself, is a lot of the gain you get from forging in the first place!!
Get large stock that you can find, make a friend of someone who has a hammer that will knock the large stuff down into workable dimension.
There's a zillion different ways to go about this, but the fun part seems to be that we are all headed in a similiar direction. That's one of the great aspects of this web site.
I happen to use 1" square 5160 that I knock down to about .300 - .310 by about 1 - 1.250. I can forge anything I want from that! Draw it out, bang it down, taper it, widen it, etc. When I get done, I actually have a FORGED blade.
Find a method that suits you. That's why I suggested visiting other smiths. Look, listen and learn.
Find your groove, Man!
 
Also! Go to Hammer-ins!! Take part in Seminars that you can get to. The whole idea of these is to share information, and at this point, that is exactly what you need.
Nothing better than to learn something from someone who is already doing it!
 
Welcome to the ABS. Its an adventure to say the least. I enjoy the ride and the constant challenges still. It sounds like you have the drive and determination to make the grades.
I watched as many videos I could get my hands on and went with the steels that the other ABS smiths recommended. There will be time to venture out into your own steels later, the main thing is to choose one and stick with it until you are very confident that it will bring consistant results. Testing and logging your results takes time but its the only way to make yourself satisfied. If you have any doubts about your knives performance it will haunt you for life.

I used 5160 for JS and 1084/15n20 for MS. (Most smiths used these) If you have a power hammer you can buy any size and stretch it out but if you are on an anvil You may wish to make it easy on yourself and buy slightly oversized stock. Buy it from the same reliable source. Buy enough at the same time to cut and bend several test blades. Have fun and dont worry about breaking a few.
 
For hand forging bowie's the 1/4 X 1" is tuff to do a bowie with but adding 1/4" to the width makes a huge difference. If your wanting to stay with the 10XX seems to me that Mace had a run of 1/4 X 1 1/2 1084 thats some darn good steel but a bit on the spendy side. Also round stock from 3/4" will produce a fair size bowie. USEnco has been running a special for several years on W-1 and O-1 in rounds. W-1 is very simular to the 10XX.
 
Thanks!

I grabbed a few feet of the 1" W2 from don to try that out. Once i get some practice on the 1084 i have, I will plan to focus on one steel and stick with it. Id love to stick with 1084, but it seems that once i ran out of the stuff from mace, itd be nearly impossible to find more..

Next year i hope to get out to some larger hammerins in the northeast and to smash some steel with the big boys.
 
After learning to forge and properly heat treat those steels the next step is test, test, and then test some more. The first step in the JS or MS test is the performance phase. If your blades don't pass that portion, the rest is moot.

Pick one or two steels and LEARN them inside and out. The JS and MS performance tests are not really about how well you can make a knife....their about how much, and how well you can control your chosen media. This takes time, experimentation, and determination. AND, understanding that what makes a superior cutting implement isn't one or two things....it's the "overall package".
 
After 15 years of full time knife making I decided to go for the JS & MS. I wasn't too worried with the performance test and it went fine. But the 5 knives being judged at the Blade Show was stressful to say the least. You must make the knives along the lines and style of the ABS, nothing weird or unusual and they need to be nearly flawless. The judging at the Blade show gets thougher every year as the knives and makers are getting better and the bar is continually being raised. Good luck Dave :thumbup:
 
Don makes a couple of very good points that should be addressed. Those being that every year better and better knives are submitted for judging, and the bar is constantly being raised.

I often hear complaints from those preparing to test for their JS or MS that the ABS is raising the bar....this is simply not true. The ABS has maintained the same basic standards for those submitting knives for judging. What has changed is the Makers. If anyone is raising the bar, it's us. Each year that I have judged, there are always knives in the room that impress me with the level of fit and finish they achieve. There are many reasons why things have advanced as much, and as quickly as they have.... the "dark years" are long gone when makers would not share information, the internet makes finding information and contacting other makers far easier than it's ever been before, and more and more of us are offering classes that makers are taking advantage of.
All of these things have contributed to the level of craftsmanship we are seeing in modern custom knives.
Speaking strictly on human behavior, and concerning submitting knives for judging. We may not want to admit it, but when knives from various makers are laid out side by side, our attention is naturally drawn to the "best" knives in the room. We still judge each maker's knives according to the criteria set forth, but the point here is that if your knives "shine" from 5 feet away, they are likely to be very easy to judge.

Another scenerio that has occurred several times since I've been judging is that a maker will submit 4 knives that will easily pass, and for whatever reason the 5th knife fails them all. One of the questions I have asked is....."When did you finish this knife?" (speaking of the failed piece), and usually get the response "Yesterday." My point here is to give yourself PLENTY of time to complete the knives that you will present for judging, and then GET THEM TO AS MANY MASTERSMITHS AS POSSIBLE FOR REVIEW.
A certain amount of the testing process is squarely on the applicant's shoulders. As the old saying goes, "Fail to prepare"......."Prepare to Fail."
It's nerve wracking, sometimes frustrating, but the reward is well worth the effort! Considering that there are roughly only 100 active ABS Mastersmiths in the world, it's something that not everyone can achieve, but it's not the finish that makes us better....it's the journey.
 
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