Steel choice

C

cgdavid

Joined
Sep 12, 2005
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Some of the steels that have my interest at the moment are O1 (which I'm using on a couple projects now) 52100, D2 and, s30v.

First the carbon, non-stainless....

What would make you choose one or the other between O1 and 52100?


The more-or-less stainless.....

D2 and s30v...?

Who knows their way around heat treating these? I'm very sure these are out of my league for treating and I certainly will need to send them out.

Thanks.....Curt

PS
Hope to have some newby knife pictures to show you soon...
 
cgdavid said:
Some of the steels that have my interest at the moment are O1 (which I'm using on a couple projects now) 52100, D2 and, s30v.

First the carbon, non-stainless....

What would make you choose one or the other between O1 and 52100?


The more-or-less stainless.....

D2 and s30v...?

Who knows their way around heat treating these? I'm very sure these are out of my league for treating and I certainly will need to send them out.

Thanks.....Curt

PS
Hope to have some newby knife pictures to show you soon...
Click to expand...
Curt, I would say O1 would be best for a steel to start with. With a hardware store Mapp torch kit you can heat treat yourself. It's easy to grind too.
D2 and S30V are more complex to HT. You'll need a HTing furnace or oven. You can still make knives with them but would have to send them out for HT. I've used D2 for almost 3 three years and sent them to Texas Knifemakers Supply for HT. I HT all my blades now. Good luck and hope to see what you come up with.:)
Scott
 
Curt,
For stock removal, between 52100 and O-1, I'd go with O-1. It seems to be more forgiving in heat treating, and you already have some experience with it. It can also be hard to find 52100 in very many different sizes for stock removal.
Between D-2 and S30V, I'd go with S30V. It has a smaller grain structure which makes it tougher, it is more stain resistent, and holds an edge just as well as D-2. It is a little more expensive, probably harder to work with after heat treating (but D-2 isn't much fun to deal with after heat treat, either), and a little more complex in the heat treatment (I'd suggest sending them out), but it is in fairly high demand for a reason.
Not discounting the first two paragraphs, but I use more 52100 than
O-1. With proper forging and heat treatment, I can get more performance out of 52100 than any other steel I've used. Also, I really like the aggressive cutting edge that I get with D-2 in utility sized blades. In areas where toughness is a factor and stain resistence is a must, I'd still go with S30V.

Todd
 
Forging, I'd go with 52100, stock removal, 0-1. I can get better performance out of forged 52100 than anything else, but 0-1 is a good steel and the heat treat is a little more forgiving than 52100 and you already have experiance with it.

I would take ATS-34 or 154CM over D2 most any days, but that's splitting hairs as they are basicly the same steel and have the same basic heat treat. That said I realy like S30V, but it's a bear to finish and sharpen without a grinder and a good diamond or cermanic is a must. Also I haven't been able to get a real fine finish on S30V, while I can take ATS34 to a mirror finish, it sharpens a lot easier than S30V, but is less rust resistant and holds an edge about 30% less than S30V. Then again S30V seems about 30% harder to sharpen and finish. Each steel has it's trade offs.

When you get down to it it's the heat treat, not so much the steel. I love 52100, but wouldn't make a dive knife out of it. I wouldn't make a sword out of 440C, but with a cryo and good heat treat it'd make a good knife that's better than a lot of factory knives even if it's considered a bit outdated.

When it comes to heat treating stainless, I send mine to Paul Boss, best in the buisness and well worth the price. One advantage of carbon steel is that you can heat treat it yourself with very simple tools.
 
Between O1 and 52100, I'd suggest O1 for stock removal, and 52100 for forging. Chemically, they are both very similar, and technically should achieve very similar results when equal heat treat techniques are used. However, (I think, because of Ed Fowler's research and writings in recent years) 52100 has much more performance information published than O1.

As mentioned, O1 is readily available in precision ground (ie.- expensive) flat bar stock, while 52100 almost entirely comes in round bar or rod stock for forging. Flat bar is available but they are almost as expensive as O1.

Between D2 and S30V, I think you are better off going for S30V as I have found both similarly difficult to work with in the annealed state. You will use up significantly more tooling and abrasives with these steels compared to the carbon tool steels. S30V has a finer grain structure, is tougher, holds an edge longer, is more stain resistant and takes a finer finish than D2 (if you are interested in the effort, that is...) D2 and S30V are both absolute bast@#&$ to work with when hardened and tempered, so all hand finishing can and should be done before heat treatment and only light hand sanding and refinishing is required after heat treat.

As with anything, the more controlled your equipment, the better the results, but generally speaking, O1 and 52100 can be heat treated in a home-made forge (with experience) and tempered in a household oven. D2 and S30V require equipment and knowledge that most of use relegate to the professionals.

If my post sounds very similar to other responses, then you might have a consensus on the issue ! Best of luck. Jason.
 
Quality 52100 has a lot of science behind it, those who make the best get the business over those who make 52100 of lesser quality. That is the reason we have spent the past 10 years experimenting with a single batch of known quality. While slight differences will occur from bars from the same batch, they are pretty easy to compensate for. Reliability and consistency in the material are invaluable when you want to push the steel to the limit.
 
Thanks everyone...

Very unusual to get this amount of agreement on a subject.

Will52100... Do you have contact info for Paul Boss?

How does Texas Knifemakers Supply's service rate?
 
I can't find the contact for Paul Bos, you can probably find it by doing a search on shopetalk. If not let me know, I see if I can dig it up if it didn't get deleted by accident.

I will not send any more blades to TKS, they did a great job on all but one, one that aparently wasn't tempered properly and broke while putting the gaurd on. It may have been my faul through a stress risser, but I did this one the same way as every other one and never had a problem. There service is good, but I'm kinda funny about who does what to my knives. Paul Bos is the best, but even then I'd prefer to do my own, but don't do enough stainless to justify the heat treat oven and cryo dewer yet.
 
The 5160 that Dan Gray is selling is great steel. We have been using it for our seminars and students are turning out outstanding blades. Some over 800 cuts, some over 6 180 degree bends, over 10 edge flexes and very tough blades, all require a cheater on the tang to complete the 180 degree flexes. It respondes very well to low temp forging, proper thermal cycles and heat treat.
 
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