Steel Comparison?

iamtoast

iamtoast

Basic Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
1,776
Dan, what is your take on designer steels like 'INFI', SR101, SR77 in comparison to CPM-S3V. Do you feel that these are all pretty much in the same category and a cut above (sorry) other available steels?

If anyone has experience with several of these, what is your impression?
 
Are you refering to CPM 3V or CPM S30V?

(there is no CPM S3V steel.....common mistake)



If you mean CPM 3V...and how it compares to other super steels....I honestly do not know personally, as I have not tested them all myself. I can give you Charpy results, "predict" outcomes based on steel chemistry, and direct you to the dozens/hundreds of reviews I've received/read/written on CPM 3V....but I do not do comparison testing.

Do I feel that CPM 3V is the best steel for the money? Yes.

Do I feel that it is the best performance all-around? Yes.

Do I feel that it is the best fit for me, my knives, my design process, my machining abilities, etc.? Yes.



It is indeed a "cut above" (as you said) the competition.


It's hard to find anything wrong with it...

-Does not chip out, or micro-chop
-Has some corrosion resistance, but enough to lose edge strength
-Is made in the CPM way....finer grain structure
-Is available in sizes/quantities relevant for knifemakers
-Is sharpenable by the "average Joe"
-Can be "stropped back" to sharp
-Has great edge-holding
-Has great wear-resistance
-Is not hard to machine
-Is extremely tough (impact strength)



All knife steels are "compromises" in some way....they have "trade offs" for their more redeeming qualities.

CPM 3V is a "no excuses" steel. Few trade-offs....few compromises.

An "ideal mixture" as far as steel composition goes.

There will be other steels that will outperform it, for sure....but they'll be "compromised" in some way......ie. will rust, or is pricey, not readily available, hard to machine, hard to sharpen, have to sharpen too frequently, and so on.



There's more....lots more...but all this talk of steel is making me want to get back on the grinder. :D


Dan
 
I only have 1 3v and a 2 infis but I think the 3v is slower to sharpen but takes a better edge.

Like with the infi I'll make a pass and it's shaving and then the next pass with make it not shaving and it's almost like I'm pushing a burr back and forth or something.

The 3v is much slower for me to reach the shaving part but the more I sharpen it the more sharp it gets, there is no sharp, then not sharp then sharp.

That said I think the infi is easier to strop sharp than the 3v.

Just my observations.
 
Yes, that would make sense. It is lower carbon percentage...like 5160...easier to sharpen.


Dan
 
I'm with Hollowdweller on this..
3V gets ridiculous stoopid sharp, when you polish long enough. Much more so then Infi (which will be a bit less stoopid sharp)

I recently got my first INFI after playing with SR-101 for a couple of years, and it didn't impress me as SR-101 did the first time I used that. It's a great steel, but I feel there's not a big lot of difference. The steels have the same characteristics, and maybe INFI is a bit better overal, but I just haven't noticed that yet.
I don't do comparison tests, just rotate the knives and see how they do. I have 2 Busse's and 5 Rats in SR-101, and they are my favourite users, mainly because of the steel. They all needed serious regrinding though, to bring out what imho is the best the steel can offer.

I have a Fehrman, and Dan's Bushcraft in CPM 3V, and they compare greatly with the Busse steels.. Very good edgeretention for slicing AND chopping. Very rust resistant for a carbon steel (but they will rust), and they are very, very strong, and have a high hardness without chipping or brittleness. It's the third steel that enters the top in carbon steels in my knife drawer.

Martin
 
Last edited:
Oops, sorry about the 's' there. I would like to blame it on copying and pasting but cannot find a source so I guess I will have to suck it up and take the blame. I guess I got a bit too used to typing s30v or, in Kershaw's case, s110v.

I have a swamp rat, ratmandu in sr101. It seems to be about a perfect knife but for the choil. I can't say I am a fan of that 'feature' as it takes away from useful blade real estate. I have been a big fan of the ZT 0100 in CPM (no S) 3v but find it hard to justify the cost and I like full flat cuts better. The Bushmaster seems a perfect compromise and I look forward to its completion. IF you feel like posting/including any more pictures of their creation I would appreciate it, they help to make a back story for the knife.

Anyway, that is why I am curious in peoples impressions of the different luxury steels.

Regards,
Toast
 
No worries, bro - I understand 100%. :D


I do agree with your assessment...putting CPM 3V in the "top class"...."luxury division"....though I would think of it more like a m-class bmw or sporty merc, rather than a rolls. :p


Dan
 
Well, I have to say that you're likely to be disappointed looking for one of the steels you mentioned to be significantly "better" than the others, although I do have to rate the SR-77 (S7 shock steel) the lowest among them for any task other than really stressful impact work. For the other three, it kind of gets into the Ferrari versus Lamborghini versus Maserati type of discussion.

I can get INFI screamingly sharp, although have noticed the same tendancies that are spoken of above if I try ending with a strop. I think it's a simple case of over-polishing an edge that isn't loaded with large free carbides, and so removing its aggressive "toothy" quality. I find INFI responds best to finishing with push cuts along very fine Arkansas stones to make a slight microbevel. With what I consider to be medium-heavy geometry (about 30 degrees, included) my FSH will pop hairs above the skin all day. If you want to whittle them, you have to get thinner in the edge, or at least I do.

I have chipped 3V---fell off of a ladder while I was clearing dead branches off a tree, and pitched the knife away so I wouldn't land on it...right onto the damned driveway. :rolleyes: Yes, speedy edge-first impact, loads of fun. Anyway, three millimeter-or-smaller chips and some blunting right where it hit, which were easily sharpened most of the way out in about ten minutes, and have now disappeared entirely with subsequent resharpenings. Nice knife by Bill Siegle.

Anyway, it can happen, (and can also happen with INFI and the Swamp and Scrapyard steels) but unless you're just being goofy, you're not going to see catastrophic damage with any of these steels during any even remotely appropriate knife use.

The one area where INFI really pulls well ahead of 3V is corrosion resistance. 3V isn't as bad as O-1 or L6, but bead blast it and see what it does. INFI is much more forgiving--even when doublecut (their name for a fine bead blast) it takes some serious neglect in mean environments to see anything more than a slight dusting of brown form up, which will wipe off with an oily cloth in a couple swipes. It's the only knife steel I've tried that shrugs off moisture and staining this way without being at all brittle.

I will give 3V the edge over any of the others we're talking about here when it comes to abrasive edge holding in tasks like skinning. Greater concentration of carbides, so even as the steel in between them is wearing away they keep on chewing through the cutting medium. SR-101 and INFI would tie for second as far as my experience goes (SR-101 again has more carbon but INFI sits a couple points higher on the HRC scale so it seems to balance out) with SR-77 bringing up the rear.

I really wish S5 shock steel was still easily available, as it's really better suited for knives than S7 while still being absurdly tough. I had an order placed with a maker several years back for a sort of camp cleaver out of S5, but it fell through.

...Hmmm. Dan, if I found you some, dontcha think it'd be fun to try out in a Monster Nessmuck? ;) :D
 
Last edited:
t1mpani, great information. This is exactly what I am looking for.

I have an s7 Scrapyard 7.5" blade on order. It will be my large blade for chopping and clearing branches etc. I have a 3" Pendleton Mini Hunter in VG-1 for Cold Steel for use in carving and fine cutting. Very nice, if maybe a bit too small, blade that gets very sharp and hold it pretty well.

What I am missing is a medium sized blade. For this role I will be choosing between the Ratmandu in SR101 from Swamp Rat or the Bushmaster in 3v. I have not used the RMD yet. If it does not provide some decent advantage over the Bushmaster I will likely sell it. The Bushmaster will have a slightly shorter blade but will end up with more cutting edge. The RMD has about an inch long choil starting right in front of the grip which decreases the cutting edge by about 1/6th. I wish Busse kin would make two versions of their knives, one with the standard choil and one without.

I guess it comes down to this, is there any reason or benefit in keeping the RMD once the Bushmaster arrives?

Thanks,
IamToast
 
t1mpani - no way, man...I'm not crazy about how the "S" series grind/finish...not my cup-o-tea.


It's really hard to beat CPM 3V.....another thing to consider....it's not a "propreitary formula"...meaning a lowly knife shop like mine can have access to it. :foot:


Dan
 
I should also say (and I'm pretty sure Tom will back me on this)....3V even works great in the kitchen. A great "carbon steel" alternative to rust-prone 1095.


:thumbup:

Dan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top