Steel comparrison-ATS 34 and CPM S30V question

M

miden

Joined
Sep 9, 2005
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Can somebody please tell me how CPM S30V compares to ATS 34?
It is a lot more expensive, I know:D
Is it more difficult to grind, how well does it hold an edge, is it THAT much better than ATS 34? Is it good for a 6" blade work knife?
Also, what is the recommended hardness for a working blade?
Any opinions/facts will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

ps, sorry if this has been asked before:o
 
Steel questions are always a delight indeed. Tempers go awry and most are accurate, at least in their place of discussion. I would suggest you contact Don Robinson who has used ATS for some time but is now favoring S30V. Contact him at donwrobinson@earthlink.net
 
thanks TinyDee, sounds like the most logical thing to do.
Far be it from me to stir up another hornets nest.:D

Mike
 
There will be a stir of emotions on this for sure.I would only comment that the main reason for CPM steels is the fine grain.ATS34 and CPM S30V are two different categories of stainless steels.I use ATS-34 for most all of my stainless knives.When I want an exceptional knife I use S30V.Ever since I realized I wanted to make only exceptional knives,I will be doing all of them in S30V when I run out of ATS34.The expense of the steel is the last thing I would let determine the value of a steel for a specific knife.Whether the steel costs $5 or $35 doesn't make any difference in the quality of the finished knife. It is the skill of the maker and the proper blending of function,use,and craftsmanship that matters.If I was rating the decision factors on picking a steel I would go:
Purpose of the knife
Style of the knife
Manufacturing method
Final cost range of knife
Cost of steel

Obviously there is no need to make a putty knife from S30V,just because it would be a great putty knife.But,likewise,there is no need to scrimp on the steel price to make a fillet knife,just because it will save a few dollars.Cheap knives are available at K-mart.Quality knives are available from Knifemakers,and command the price accordingly.I have no problem getting $125-250 for a fillet knife from someone who appreciates what it took to make that knife.
Don't your customers (or yourself) deserve that !!!
Stacy
 
Stacy, you put things into perspective very nicely. Thank you.

I certainly hope there will NOT be a stirring of emotions, I simply want opinions like the one you just gave. Objective! Bitching sessions I do not need.:eek:

Mike Hull once pointed out to me that if the older steels are no good now that newer ones are out there then how come so many reputable makers still use and trust the older ones? A good point!

I have used ATS 34 for all my knives so far and have no real complaints, one just wonders if there are improvements around, same as we constantly try to improve our own skills and ourselves.

Thanks,:thumbup:
Mike
 
bladsmth said:
Cheap knives are available at K-mart. Quality knives are available from Knifemakers,and command the price accordingly.
Click to expand...
Excellent Post! :thumbup:
 
Mike, S30V grinds very readily before HT if you're used to grinding stainless. It is tougher to finish than ATS34, especially a handrubbed finish. Those little vanadiums are hard carbides. :)
 
I use ATS-34 and 154CM. I have only done a few blades with S30V and a few in S90V. Gotta tell ya, Mike is right. That stuff will wear you out if you want to hand rub it.
 
fitzo said:
Mike, S30V grinds very readily before HT if you're used to grinding stainless. It is tougher to finish than ATS34, especially a handrubbed finish. Those little vanadiums are hard carbides. :)
Click to expand...

Darn, just what I did not want to hear.
Well, there is nothing easy in this game so why should steel containing Vanadium be easy to hand rub?:rolleyes:
Hand rubbing is what I do a lot of.
Maybe this will inspire me to get off my duff and build that hand rubbing machine I have been dreaming about.....:D
Thanks Mike and Jeff.

Mike
 
Hand Rubbing S30V is a pita.
But s90 takes the cake!~ S90 is an all day job!
They both work great for blades.
Stacy's statement is great!
 
miden said:
.....
Maybe this will inspire me to get off my duff and build that hand rubbing machine I have been dreaming about.....:D
...

Mike
Click to expand...

Now that gave me a real good chuckle! Thanks, Mike! :)
 
fitzo said:
Now that gave me a real good chuckle! Thanks, Mike! :)
Click to expand...

A machine like that will make your day go better.

It still wont make the s90v and better! PITA PITA:jerkit:
 
Guys,a hand rubbing machine is like that oral sex machine we all though about designing when we were kids.If it were an improvement over the real thing,there would be ten models at Sears.The only thing that makes hand rubbed finishes easier is having someone else do it.I bet we could keep an entire village in Bangladesh well employed forever if they offered cheap hand finishing services.
 
Fitzo, looks like Darrel beat me to it but I think that one will only work well on cylindrical objects:D :D
 
So Stacy, did you ever manage to make one that works.......?
Just wondering.......I would of course never be interested in something like that....

Looks like my thread is lost......:D

Mike
 
Ever play with Vascowear, Darrel? Another PITA to finish. :(

My chuckle was at the oxymoron "hand rubbing machine". :)
 
bladsmth said:
Guys,a hand rubbing machine is like that oral sex machine we all though about designing when we were kids.
Click to expand...

They called that a calf, Stacy..... ;)

Sorry, Mike.... :D
 
miden - I apologize,and yes this thread is trashed now.I had one all figured out ,but then I discovered girls and lost interest in mechanics.IG has one made I think.
Fitzo - I spent many years taking care of some friends dairy cattle as they aged.I started when I was 12.That is all I'm saying,except that working with calves is a mooooving experience.
Fitzo - back to steels - vascowear is the ultimate challenge.
 
Stacy,
I have one that I designed years ago.
It still works great today.
It does a good job to about a 220 grit then its all elbow grease until the finish!
The machine has evolved over the years that's for sure.
 
miden, check out the article in this months Blade mag about Crucible's CPM154. That might be an option for you. Suppose to take a great finish.
Scott
 
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