steel craze: D2 vs M2 (and M4)

M

M Wadel

Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
801
i wonder how these 2 steels would compare when used in folders (and large fixed blades). havent seen alot of knives using m2 yet (maybe ive missed them)
does anybody have any info. i found a comparison chart on crucibles site http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/ACFC3C.pdf the m2 seems to be a little better than d2, but the m4 seems to be alot stronger and more wear resistant :eek: . u guys think m4 will be showing up in production blades anytime soon?
 
Hard to say. One of the concerns for people may be the trouble sharpening highly wear resistant steels. Everynow and then you see reports of people that have been struggling with sharpening D2 or the new ZDP189. I would imagine M4 would not be for everyone because once it got dull it may be very difficult for most people to ever see the same level of sharpness they had on the blade when they got it. Looking at the wear resistance and toughness levels of M4, it may be an effort in frustration for most people to even see any significant results after sharpening it. M2 is hard enough for most I think but I'm sure it would be a great edge keeper. Probably depends on the hardness and other factors like the edge geometry too to a large extent.

Looks like it would be a good steel though compared to some of the ones it is compared to there.
 
STR said:
Looking at the wear resistance and toughness levels of M4, it may be an effort in frustration for most people to even see any significant results after sharpening it.
Click to expand...

Ceramic still harder then most steel including M2, M4, ... and SiliconCarbides is even harder. But EzeLap Diamond sharpeners will sharpen everything! Wear resistance may affect grinding, but sharpening is out of equasion, really - What can not be sharpened with 1200 EzeLap for $25 from any carpenter store?

However difference between premium steel not really too noticable with normal use, it is mostly for edge cases.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
will d2 blades and m2 blades be a problem getting sharp with a spyderco sharpmaker? (if not using the diamond rods)
 
M Wadel said:
will d2 blades and m2 blades be a problem getting sharp with a spyderco sharpmaker? (if not using the diamond rods)
Click to expand...

All the sharpmaker rods (ceramic or diamond) are all harder than any steel, so in that sense, they will sharpen any steel.

But the rods are not very coarse, so when changing an edge profile it will take a long time, unless a coarser stone or sandpaper is used to start.

Once you re-profile a D2 blade, say to less than 14 degrees per side, it is very easy to keep sharp with the sharpmaker. (My ZDP is fine also).
 
M Wadel said:
will d2 blades and m2 blades be a problem getting sharp with a spyderco sharpmaker? (if not using the diamond rods)
Click to expand...

I use the sharpmaker on my BM 710 HS (M2 steel) and it works great. Ive never let the blade get too dull, just occasional touch ups on the sharpmaker keep it hair-popping sharp. I just use the stones that came with it, no diamond rods.
 
Ceramic still harder then most steel including M2, M4, ... and SiliconCarbides is even harder. But EzeLap Diamond sharpeners will sharpen everything! Wear resistance may affect grinding, but sharpening is out of equasion, really - What can not be sharpened with 1200 EzeLap for $25 from any carpenter store?
Click to expand...

Hi Vassili.

Yes. I feel the same way and think the same thing each time I read a post of someone else struggling with one of the higher wear steels. Go figure. I guess not all have the patience for hand sharpening these types of steels after using an Old Timer Stockman for years at around a 56Rc. When you are used to seeing results pretty quick on your old knife and don't after a good while of sharpening on one of these super steels I would imagine when all else fails post here right?
 
STR said:
Hi Vassili.

Yes. I feel the same way and think the same thing each time I read a post of someone else struggling with one of the higher wear steels. Go figure. I guess not all have the patience for hand sharpening these types of steels after using an Old Timer Stockman for years at around a 56Rc. When you are used to seeing results pretty quick on your old knife and don't after a good while of sharpening on one of these super steels I would imagine when all else fails post here right?
Click to expand...

Well, yes I am relatively new in knives. So I start my sharpening using Sharpmaker, it "fail" only once when I try to sharpen CPM S90V because of high vanadium content - it was not able to sharpen it better then vanadium carbide grain size, but it was still while after it did start shaving. Still diamond EzeLap can stisfy almost anybody - it sharpens pretty fast.

The other side of sharpening - it is like meditation, I have this almost every evening polishing to mirror new SAR Rat edge first I reprfile it by 250, 400, 600 and 1200, then Silicon Carbide powder 1500, then 3000, 8000,14000, 50000 and 100000. This is completely unnesesary, it was shaving sharp right after 1200 diamond EzeLap, I just meditate this way - slow repetitive relaxing motions sincromnize me somehow, makes my thoughts flow smooze... Anyway it is much better then let youself go under TV brainwashing...

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Haven't used the other two, but all of my benchmades are D2 and it performs superbly. And I don't take any special care of them either with no problems. Probably my favorite steel right now.
 
M Wadel said:
i wonder how these 2 steels would compare when used in folders (and large fixed blades).
Click to expand...

M2 is pretty much a directly better blade steel for a knife intended to be used for fine cutting than D2. M2 gets harder, and is *much* more wear resistant, and has a finer grain and carbide structure. The higher alloy HSS pretty much continue this performance improvement. Sharpening them isn't an issue assuming they are ground optimally from the maker. Machinability should never significantly influence ease of sharpening, if it does then something is seriously wrong with the knife.

-Cliff
 
The key with very strong steels is sharpen them before they get dull. However, it's definately not impossible to sharpen such tough steels once they are extremely dull, espicially the finer grain ones. I sharpen most knives witht these steels fairly quickly and it only takes a while if the balde is seriously chipped. In my opinion the finer grain is more important than the steel's raw strength.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Sharpening them isn't an issue assuming they are ground optimally from the maker.
Click to expand...

Hence we're doomed only to see such knives if we grind them ourselves or offer bribes to Vassilli, Phil, TomK, or AlvinJ....

DoooOooOoomed!
 
I like M2 better than D2 and have no trouble sharpening it on waterstones. I think most of the people who have trouble with these are probably using Arkansass stones (they are fine for normal softer steels, but are not very aggressive and possibly softer than some of the hardest steels... around the hardness of window glass / quartz). India stones, crystolon, borazon, waterstones, ceramic sharpeners, AlO2 or SiC sandpaper and diamond stones should work fine.
 
I've got a Benchmade 730 CFHS (lucky me!) that uses M2. I love the stuff. It holds an edge like crazy and is easy to touch up when it needs it, that is to say rarely. The jury is still out on s30v for me after using the M2 for so long...it's that good.
 
my friend gave me this knife a while back. i carry it often because i like the lock up and it stays sharp. in fact i have yet to sharpen it yet. after reading this thread i looked at it further and it says D2 on the blade. i can't find it on benchmade's site. but if this blade is D2 then i am all for it in a folder. i love this knife.
IMG_4639.jpg


IMG_4637.jpg


IMG_4636.jpg


--KJ
 
Nice knife you got there from your friend.

941 Carbon fiber D2 LE.

Thats a keeper, hmm, makes ya think of something else almost in this case...
The first one's free..

Welcome to addiction.
Btw, ya owe your buddy a thanks, or something for that.
:D

WR
 
M4 should be a fun steel. Sal said that they are experiementing with it. Maybe we get lucky and Spyderco will come out with a knife with M4 steel.
 
I too have a BM 730 CFHS, and that M2 steel is way cool. It holds an edge longer than any other knife I have, and ends up doing the nastiest chores, but still holds up. I've used that knife to trim bushes, and cut sheet rock, and it's still sharp. I have no trouble sharpening it using a small diamond rod and finishing on ceramics. My D2 Cuda Maxx doesn't see much use, and the thick grind has prevented me from getting it as sharp as I want, and with 5.5 inches of steel, reprofiling it will be a b!tch.:eek: So, I don't have much experience with D2 yet.

D2
 
Seems Benchmade is the only factory made thats using M2 in the 710hs and the 910hs. D2 has a lot more sources but are mostly used in handmades. D2 is also the high end steel used by BM! Models it comes in is the Cabelas Griptillian, the 806d2 and most limited editions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top