STEEL EXPERTS WEIGH IN PLEASE.

I believe it's a good general reference for those getting into knife steels, with the caveat that blade geometry and heat treatment are just as important as the steel itself.

It's not a definitive or all encompassing guide, but it's so much easier to digest than the nerdier sources out there, so for that reason, Blade HQ's steel guide has some value.

Just know that that guide, along with a couple of the other easily digestible ones, are slowly becoming outdated as more very good steels come out that aren't listed in them. Moreover, in BladeHQ's list, I find myself more interested in the steels that are mentioned as "others" but not discussed.
 
I believe it's a good general reference for those getting into knife steels, with the caveat that blade geometry and heat treatment are just as important as the steel itself.
Yes leaving those things out and just the steel, thanks.
 
There is a lot to pick at. Elmax and a2 have the same corrosion resistance? S30v is 5/10 tough and s35vn is 6/10 tough? Really?
 
This post of mine was buried in the "Spyderco 2020: Delivered and Upcoming" thread but, since you brought it up, thought it would be useful to repost it here:

Regarding blade steels, if you haven't seen/read it yet, you should take a look at this report prepared by BF member @Larrin who tested the "edge retention" performance of 48 different blade steels:

See: Testing the Edge Retention of 48 Knife Steels

A lot of the info in this report is very technical and, if you'd like to see my layman's summary of the gist of the report, you can find that here in the thread that @Larrin created to announce his report:

My Summary Regarding the 48 Steel Edge Retention Report

There are a couple of obvious surprises in the report that may or may not affect your interest in and/or decision to purchase knives made w/specific blade steels in the future, depending how important you consider edge retention to be in selecting a knife.


A lot of very interesting information provided in the test report compares the edge retention performance (as it varies w/their hardness) and found that S90V has better edge retention than S110V and some other premium steels and also found that S30V has better edge retention at its lowest level of hardness than M4/Elmax/S45VN, which is probably a surprise for many people who think that S90V and S30V are no longer competitive/relevant as blade steels.
 
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Yes it is, after all their in business to sell knives. I don’t think they’d provide bogus information on the types of steel being used.
However, there is more than one source to see if steels line up accordingly. As mentioned, there’s articles written here as well as people’s personal experience with different steels.
 
Let me start by saying that I've spent a lot of money at blade HQ and continue to be a customer of theirs. I should also say that I'm not a steel expert and I should warn you that this is a deep rabbit hole from which there's no return.

When I was brand new to knives, I looked at their steel rankings a lot. They should be applauded for even making one because it's not easy.

I feel that their rankings are due for an update. I disagree with how they've ranked some steels and many new and important steels are missing.

Its very difficult to rank steels in a linear way because there's more than one way to look at edge retention, there's different kinds of edge retention, and there's different kinds of toughness. There's also different definitions of what "dull" means. Making it worse, the media being cut will dramatically alter the results. Cardboard specifically levels the playing field a bit and "budget" steels like 14c28n and AUS-8, in controlled cut tests, deliver results similar to or better than S30V, S35VN, M390, 20CV, and CTS-204P.

Some steels like M390/20CV are held in high regard because of how they balance different attributes.

Steels like S110V are ranked high because of "wear resistance" which is a component of edge retention... but it's just one component. In some cases the strength at the apex matters a lot.

The standardized equipment used in the industry to test edge retention is called a CATRA machine. Its results also have to be taken with a grain of salt, because of the media being cut, as well as the high level of dullness the machine achieves. Its far beyond where most people would take an edge in terms of dullness. With that being said, CATRA tests are a critically valuable datapoint and are a good measure of wear resistance. We need more of them.

The same is true for rope and cardboard cut tests on YouTube.

As previously mentioned above, Larrin, an actual expert on this subject has a CATRA machine and he just published test results for 48 different steels on www.knifesteelnerds.com

Its best to not look at one set of tests or rankings versus another as being correct or incorrect. They're all guidelines and data points and have to be taken in context.

The variables introduced by the end user will make the largest difference on edge performance.

Three primary categories make up "edge retention"

1. Edge geometry. This primarily is set by the end user with the edge angle and grit finish.

2. Chemical composition or the ingredients of the alloy, are standardized for each steel but there's some variation, especially with certain steels.

3. Rockwell Hardness (HRC) The chemical composition and the heat treat/temper will determine the final HRC. An optimal heat treat process is determined based on the steel composition and the results desired

Higher hardness gives more strength at the apex of the edge. The wear resistance of softer steels count for nothing if you're rolling, blunting, or chipping your edge.

Some steels are very strong at high hardness, which is why the new high end non stainless tool steels are so important.

Hardness is critically important and quickly becomes the most important, but the heat treat could be botched leaving the desired HRC but the wrong chemistry in the alloy. Obviously, problems with composition creates problems with the final result as well. HRC is only important when everything else is correct.

Even when all of the above is perfect, the end user can easily botch the sharpening in various ways, killing the performance of the edge.

Additionally the physical geometry of the blade itself will dramatically alter cutting performance in all kinds of ways. With bad geometry, the edge retention wont matter.
 
I don't think M390 and its analogues are tougher than S30VN. The opposite most likely.
 
Let me start by saying that I've spent a lot of money at blade HQ and continue to be a customer of theirs. I should also say that I'm not a steel expert and I should warn you that this is a deep rabbit hole from which there's no return.

When I was brand new to knives, I looked at their steel rankings a lot. They should be applauded for even making one because it's not easy.

I feel that their rankings are due for an update. I disagree with how they've ranked some steels and many new and important steels are missing.

Its very difficult to rank steels in a linear way because there's more than one way to look at edge retention, there's different kinds of edge retention, and there's different kinds of toughness. There's also different definitions of what "dull" means. Making it worse, the media being cut will dramatically alter the results. Cardboard specifically levels the playing field a bit and "budget" steels like 14c28n and AUS-8, in controlled cut tests, deliver results similar to or better than S30V, S35VN, M390, 20CV, and CTS-204P.

Some steels like M390/20CV are held in high regard because of how they balance different attributes.

Steels like S110V are ranked high because of "wear resistance" which is a component of edge retention... but it's just one component. In some cases the strength at the apex matters a lot.

The standardized equipment used in the industry to test edge retention is called a CATRA machine. Its results also have to be taken with a grain of salt, because of the media being cut, as well as the high level of dullness the machine achieves. Its far beyond where most people would take an edge in terms of dullness. With that being said, CATRA tests are a critically valuable datapoint and are a good measure of wear resistance. We need more of them.

The same is true for rope and cardboard cut tests on YouTube.

As previously mentioned above, Larrin, an actual expert on this subject has a CATRA machine and he just published test results for 48 different steels on www.knifesteelnerds.com

Its best to not look at one set of tests or rankings versus another as being correct or incorrect. They're all guidelines and data points and have to be taken in context.

The variables introduced by the end user will make the largest difference on edge performance.

Three primary categories make up "edge retention"

1. Edge geometry. This primarily is set by the end user with the edge angle and grit finish.

2. Chemical composition or the ingredients of the alloy, are standardized for each steel but there's some variation, especially with certain steels.

3. Rockwell Hardness (HRC) The chemical composition and the heat treat/temper will determine the final HRC. An optimal heat treat process is determined based on the steel composition and the results desired

Higher hardness gives more strength at the apex of the edge. The wear resistance of softer steels count for nothing if you're rolling, blunting, or chipping your edge.

Some steels are very strong at high hardness, which is why the new high end non stainless tool steels are so important.

Hardness is critically important and quickly becomes the most important, but the heat treat could be botched leaving the desired HRC but the wrong chemistry in the alloy. Obviously, problems with composition creates problems with the final result as well. HRC is only important when everything else is correct.

Even when all of the above is perfect, the end user can easily botch the sharpening in various ways, killing the performance of the edge.

Additionally the physical geometry of the blade itself will dramatically alter cutting performance in all kinds of ways. With bad geometry, the edge retention wont matter.

That is why I posted this thread. I spent quite a bit of time looking into this, got lost in the more technical articles though(not a metallurgist). It seemed to me that some OP were getting opinion mixed up with facts,dummy me thought it would be cut and dry.
 
I know heat treatment is important, but is this article a good reference for the different steels?
https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Best-Knife-Steel-Guide--3368

It's been a long time since I looked at this guide. I remember looking at it and other similar guides to learn about the differences between the blade steels used in the knives that I was interested in buying.

However, the type of blade steel used was NEVER a major consideration to me because I NEVER use any of the knives that I collect to cut anything. I just want to make sure that the price of the knife I am buying is justified, at least in part, by the type of blade steel used; the more expensive the knife, the better "quality" the blade steel should be.

After looking at this guide again, I am impressed by how useful the diagrams are in allowing one to judge "from a glance" how appropriate a particular knife steel would be for a specific purpose, if you actually intend to USE the knife and what compromises have to be made in order to design a steel for specific purposes.

So, if I were planning to use any of my knives for anything other than "show," I can see how I could easily refer to this guide to pick the knife w/the "best" blade steel to use for the purpose intended.

What also stood out to me when re-viewing the guide was how BHQ's assessments closely mirrored the results in the "edge retention study" that I referenced above and how the guide largely explains why Spyderco has chosen to use the steels it has used in most of its knives over time.
 
I like the options in blade steels but I sometimes wonder with so many of them coming and going if the heat treatment is the best it could be? I m sure the heat treatment is well done, I just wonder if they are getting the best performance out of the steel.
 
I like the options in blade steels but I sometimes wonder with so many of them coming and going if the heat treatment is the best it could be? I m sure the heat treatment is well done, I just wonder if they are getting the best performance out of the steel.

It's a very interesting part of the subject.

There are performance enhancements obtainable through a custom heat treat.

Just because its hand made and custom, doesn't mean its better though... it really depends on who makes it and how experienced they are with the particular steel that you want.

With folders, the problem with custom is that a compression lock, or other proprietary lock, is not an option.

Alternatively, if edge retention is that important, just get Maxamet in a Spyderco. You'll have a hard time finding something that can out cut it, even among custom knives. If a little more strength is needed, get K390 or ZDP-189. If it needs to be stainless, get S90V or I suppose something mid level like M390/20CV.

All of those steels are standard production and are available now.

If very high strength is needed, picking up a sprint in M4, REX-45, 4V, Cru-wear, etc is not hard.

In some cases, some of those exotic steels may not be an option at a custom facility.

It's all just more variables.
 
That is why I posted this thread. I spent quite a bit of time looking into this, got lost in the more technical articles though(not a metallurgist). It seemed to me that some OP were getting opinion mixed up with facts,dummy me thought it would be cut and dry.

We have a metallurgist here at bf that gets into the full detail - you will learn a LOT - and he's easy for anyone to understand
www.knifesteelnerds.com
@Larrin is excellent
& yes, that 'chart' is mostly garbage (imho)
 
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