steel identification help

M

mdoyle

Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
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Hi all,
I tested a piece of "mystery steel" 2 days ago for J. Neilson and I am having trouble matching the numbers from the analysis to any steel I have numbers for.There are some of the stainless steels I do not have numbers for, but I have quite a few and it doesn't come close to anything I have numbers for. A while back someone posted a GREAT chart here with almost any steel you can think of and its industry specs, but I didn't save it and sure can't find it now. I will post the numbers from the analysis and maybe someone can help out.

C 1.68%
Mn 0.66%
P 0.030%
S 0.008%
Si 0.57%
Ni 0.25%
Cr 3.72%
Mo 0.814%
V 0.72%
W 0.045%
Fe 84.86%

Thank you all in advance and if anyone knows the chart I'm referring to PLEASE send it my way.
Matt Doyle
 
Similar to A2 except that carbon is much higher. Perhaps a foreign steel ?
 
Mete,
I do not have any info on the steel at all except that it was "of sentimental value" to a customer of his, and the customer wanted a knife made from it. Foreign steel is certainly a possibility. Can you see any reason why it shouldn't make a fine knife? If you think it would make a good blade, any clue on the HT for him?
Thanks again,
Matt
 
I've got to add too ? I wondered about the Mo to three places . Should it be 8.14 % ? That would give 100 % though still doesn't match any AISI tool steel as the carbon is so high.
 
Mete,
No, sorry Mo is correct at 0.814%

Fitzo,
You are correct but only because there are many other elements listed in the test that I did not bother to list here, as they were both, in small amounts, and not imperative to knife making. I'm not an expert on this, nor do I claim to be. I just have the ability to have the material tested @ work through our testing lab. It costs me nothing and I charge nothing either. It's all done as a favor for the people here on the forum. If you are interested I can send you the entire test result but thought it to be a waste of time.
Matt
 
Thanks, Matt, but that's not necessary. I assume it all adds up to 100% then. My interest was in seeing if there was perhaps a typo which would then make more sense why there's so much carbon. Just a little brain teaser for an election day. Much easier than trying to figure out which politician is either the least crooked or dumb enough to get caught when cheating. :)

It is kind of you to help folks out in this way....
 
Fitzo,
The C content was puzzling to me as well. Especially with so much Cr but like I said I don't have a the specs on some of the different stainless steels. Was hoping it was something easy so that he could at least look up the HT with the manufacturer.
Matt
 
Fitzo,
I found something that may or may not help. Thanks for the link to that site. I was looking at the test sheet again and found something that looked odd to me but not sure. It shows 4.172% Ce which is Cerium. Any clue what the heck it is or is used for? I think I've thrown out all the old tests I had for other people so I've nothing to compare with here at home.
 
Here's the "wiki" reference for Cerium, Matt. Note it's comment about SS alloying. This is a neat brain teaser! We need Mete again!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerium

Edited to add: I plugged the cerium, carbon, and Cr into that database. It came up empty.
 
Fitzo,
I think maybe you meant to attatch something and did not. I tried that site you linked for me but cannot come up with anything that will match the Ce and anything else. Also the only ones I can come up with in that C and Cr range are usually a powdered cobalt steel. No Co here to speak of. 0.074%
I agree we need Mete back. I'm so far out of my range I may never make it home!!!:D
Matt
 
Cerium ??? You say that there is 7 % of 'trace elements ??? Somethings not right here ! I googled too because I'm not familiar with cerium in steel. But 4 % ?? Precipitaion hardening in stainless except this isn't stainless .Removing sulphides perhaps .Definitely mystery steel !!
 
mdoyle said:
Fitzo,
I think maybe you meant to attatch something and did not. I tried that site you linked for me but cannot come up with anything that will match the Ce and anything else. Also the only ones I can come up with in that C and Cr range are usually a powdered cobalt steel. No Co here to speak of. 0.074%
I agree we need Mete back. I'm so far out of my range I may never make it home!!!:D
Matt
Click to expand...


Sorry, Matt. I realized my error, too. :o

Strange stuff. I hope the owner checked it with a geiger counter.... :eek: :D <joking, I think>
 
Mete,
If my addition is correct, the added Ce brings it to only 2% trace. As I said earlier, I would be happy to send the test your way if you think it would help.
Maybe I need to contact J and see if he can find something out from his customer as to it's likely origin or use.
Matt
 
Yes please send me the whole chemistry or post it . I tried Google Scholar and that added some uses for cerium in things like M2 [ reducing segregation with things like W and Mo , and improving sheroidization] but we're talking about small amounts .
 
I believe this is the chart you were looking for.
1.jpg
 
Matt, notice that the report says "Low Alloy" analysis. Then notice that several of the important elements are noted as ">" (greater than).

I am not familiar with the instrument this would have been run with, but I am somewhat familiar with lab instruments. It could be that the "Low Alloy" standard would not permit a number being assigned above a certain point, and hence the "greater than(s)". You might run this by your analyst at work and ask if the numbers could actually be somewhat higher. There's about 3% left to account for. There may be other elements outside the scope of the test capabilities, too. Perhaps they would have a "high alloy" standard to test with.

I could be way off base with my hypothesis, but it may be worth asking about.

Just a thought. Thanks for sharing this with us. It is an interesting curiosity. I even wonder if it may not be a combination of a couple alloys mixed after intense heating, such as a fire or collision?? (Just playing thought experiments.)
 
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