Steel insert, frame locks

silverds said:
Are you supposed to replace the insert...or the blade...or both?
Click to expand...

You're supposed to replace the lockbar insert. The idea being you could replace the insert rather than changing the whole lockside. However at the same time since the inserts are steel they wear much slower than straight untreated titanium.

So far I have heard of zero instances of the lockbar inserts wearing out and needing to be replaced. For that matter none of my plain titanium lockbars have worn down enough to need replacing either.

I would be interested to know who did the lockbar insert first.
 
Yeah, whomever did it first must surely have considered the behavior of steel liner locks because surely there can't be that much difference, right? Has anyone had to replace a steel liner lock uh liner um lock....?
 
silverds said:
Yeah, whomever did it first must surely have considered the behavior of steel liner locks because surely there can't be that much difference, right? Has anyone had to replace a steel liner lock liner lock....?
Click to expand...

I think most replacements are done due to defective locks rather than wearing out the lock. That said I am sure that there are many cases of people wearing their titanium or even steel locks past 100% to the point where they should be replaced.

I remember I saw the lockbar tab on the Lionsteel Sr1 first as well. I assumed they invented it because the Sr1 was an integral Ti folder. That means if the lock was defective or wore out they would have to replace the entire handle of the folder. Then they also had the Sr1a which was an aluminum integral. They needed the lockbar tab on that one because aluminum is not a suitable material to make a lockbar face out of. I wonder if they came up with it first though because they never patented it.

Around that same time the lockbar tabs started showing up on the ZTs. The 0560 was in production at that time. My 0560 is from before they started putting the inserts. At some point in the production of the 0560 line they put the tabs on and they have been featured ever since. I got an 801 when they first came out and it had a locktab. I think the 801 was one of the first ZTs to he produced from the start with a lockbar tab.
 
In my opinion, I think they were integrated to address lock stick complaints/concerns rather than lock-face wear. Chris Reeve and Spyderco, to some extent, have managed to make titanium frame locks that I assume either outlast their owners or at least their owner's, expectations. I honestly think Kershaw/ZT was one of the, if not the largest manufacturer of mass market titanium and steel frame locks at one time. They might have made it main stream but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a custom maker or international manufacturer who pioneered their use.

Perhaps, there is a relation to Chris Reeves use of the ceramic ball on the Umnumzaan and Sebenza 25 or Kershaw's steel Sub-frame lock like on the Knockout.

I'm guessing we won't find a definitive and uncontroversial answer.

From KnifeInformer - http://knifeinformer.com/pocket-knife-lock-types/
Steel lockbar insert – the inventor of the lockbar insert is unclear, but over the past 10 years these have become more prevalent. They only apply to framelock knives where the lock side is titanium – the insert is a piece of hardened steel that bolts to the end of the lock bar and engages the tang of the blade. The reason for this is that titanium is a softer metal than steel, so over time engagement of the lock will wear the lock face, which can cause annoying “lock stick” or issues with engagement. Inserts are usually replaceable, but rarely need to be replaced. Some newer designs incorporate an overtravel stop into the lockbar insert on the inside of the handle, lowering the individual parts count of the blade.
 
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Iirc they are press fit in the knife. So it's not always going to work if you replace yours with another.

Most companies have them for warranty work for let's say a detent ball falls out etc.
 
I found it interesting that what could be referred to as "lock stick" was seen as desirable a few decades ago. Michael Walker, who of course developed the liner lock among other things, saw this as an advantage to using titanium:

These new lighter gauge liners were made out of titanium alloy. Titanium has many features that make it especially suitable for this application.
[...]

- Titanium galls to other metals -- it seizes to them, rather than

slipping past them, when they are rubbed together under tension.

This makes titanium useless for moving parts, but ideal for parts

that are meant to seize, such as the end of a liner engaging the

end of the tang of a folding knife blade.​
 
CPP said:
I found it interesting that what could be referred to as "lock stick" was seen as desirable a few decades ago. Michael Walker, who of course developed the liner lock among other things, saw this as an advantage to using titanium:

These new lighter gauge liners were made out of titanium alloy. Titanium has many features that make it especially suitable for this application.
[...]

- Titanium galls to other metals -- it seizes to them, rather than

slipping past them, when they are rubbed together under tension.

This makes titanium useless for moving parts, but ideal for parts

that are meant to seize, such as the end of a liner engaging the

end of the tang of a folding knife blade.​
Click to expand...
Interesting.
 
CPP said:
I found it interesting that what could be referred to as "lock stick" was seen as desirable a few decades ago. Michael Walker, who of course developed the liner lock among other things, saw this as an advantage to using titanium:

These new lighter gauge liners were made out of titanium alloy. Titanium has many features that make it especially suitable for this application.
[...]

- Titanium galls to other metals -- it seizes to them, rather than

slipping past them, when they are rubbed together under tension.

This makes titanium useless for moving parts, but ideal for parts

that are meant to seize, such as the end of a liner engaging the

end of the tang of a folding knife blade.​
Click to expand...

That's why to this day I do not mind lock stick. When people complain about Emersons and lock stick they often don't realize Ernie designed them to use that Walker liner lock that considered lock stick a feature.

Honestly most my knives that had lock stick wore to a certain point where lock stick no longer happened at which point wear slowed down to glacial speed anyway.

I think lockstick as a feature has largely been considered "outdated" technology/thinking. People realized you could make secure locks without lock stick. Folders that were designed to have lock stick are just like a classic car to me, that's all.
 
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