Steel that cuts like white steel and sharpens quickly?

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Oct 12, 2014
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Recently bought super blue knife and all my other steels are dull compared to this knife. Im looking for steel thats sharp, easy to sharpen, dulls quickly, high hardness that can be taken down low angle. Use is for cutting leather.

Any steel that has 1.2 -1.4 percent carbon like the white steel? I cant find any makers using white in USA other than murray carter. He doesnt do custom orders though..
 
Recently bought super blue knife and all my other steels are dull compared to this knife. Im looking for steel thats sharp, easy to sharpen, dulls quickly, high hardness that can be taken down low angle. Use is for cutting leather.
I'm confused, are you looking for something that dulls quickly or dulls slowly?

Any steel that has 1.2 -1.4 percent carbon like the white steel? I cant find any makers using white in USA other than murray carter. He doesnt do custom orders though..
If I understand correctly, Hitachi likes to keep their steels(Blue, Super Blue, White, ZDP-189) "in house" in Japan. I would be willing to wager that the few who work with these steels in the US have someone in Japan who buys it for them.

But if custom is a necessity to you, I'd recommend asking around the Custom & Handmade Knives section.
 
Yes, dulls slowly. Not a necessity since the knife gets resharpened every 2 minutes or so. It needs to be 90 percent sharp at least. Convex edge. Needs to sharpen quickly by diamond sharpening rod or quick touch up on waterstone.

The issue is from what I read white steel is difficult to forge. Im not a knife maker obviously so I cant gauge how hard it is to "properly" forge a white steel knife. The rarity of white steel knife makers also is why im looking for an alternative steel.
 
Yes, dulls slowly. Not a necessity since the knife gets resharpened every 2 minutes or so. It needs to be 90 percent sharp at least. Convex edge. Needs to sharpen quickly by diamond sharpening rod or quick touch up on waterstone.

The issue is from what I read white steel is difficult to forge. Im not a knife maker obviously so I cant gauge how hard it is to "properly" forge a white steel knife. The rarity of white steel knife makers also is why im looking for an alternative steel.
Well, if you have a diamond rod, anything should be able to touch up quickly. What does your regular sharpening setup look like? Say, if you needed to grind out chips in the edge.

For cutting leather, I'm not sure you really need White steel of all things. High carbon non-stainless like White and Blue are great in the kitchen because of the ability to take a very low edge angle without rolling or even chipping easily, and for being easy to sharpen(relatively speaking).

Off the top of my head, CPM-M4, M390, Elmax, and other wear resistant steels would be better for leather at higher angles like 15 degrees. Maybe doesn't cut as effortlessly, but it shouldn't dull as quickly on leather, which has impurities. I would frankly be pissed if I needed to resharpen every 2 minutes, since it would basically mean a lot of metal removal:eek:.

I'm not sure if you feel limited by your sharpening equipment, but Super Blue isn't exactly a piece of cake to sharpen either at RC 62+.
 
1095 is the closest US equivalent to Shirogami 1 that's widely available.

W2 is another option but has more alloying elements.
 
If you want a laser, thinking something like 7 degrees per side and .010" or less behind the edge and really thin at the spine, then you need a low carbide, very tough, very hard steel. White steel isn't bad. In the US you can find a number of equivalents. 52100, etc.

Finding a maker who specializes in super fine grained, super hard steels is tough outside of kitchen knives. But you're right, that kind of steel would serve very well with leather.

Chris mentioned a maker who is doing exactly what it is you're wanting. Bluntcut makes working scalpels using steels that can be taken super thin and super hard while retaining more than adequate toughness by minimizing grain size. The hardness you need increases sharpening time but also increases the amount of work you can do between sharpening. With them being so thin it doesn't take long to sharpen anyway.

As far as steeling goes, no need for that with hard steels. Steeling is for soft steels that roll and deform easily. All you'd need is a small diamond rod or plate to run across the edge every once in awhile. With a knife being .010" or less behind the edge and a thin spine you don't really even need a razor sharp knife as the thin geometry is what's doing the cutting. The sharp edge is really to make the initial cut. Everything after that is just the blade geometry. The thinner the knife the less pressure needed to make the initial cut which helps prolong the edge as well.

That kind of knife wouldn't do as well with, say, dirty, hairy hides but clean leather it'd most likely be pretty amazing.
 
7 degrees per side is what im looking for. The knife I have is chisel grind specifically for leather (15 degrees), super blue steel that is 1.4 percent carbon. Cuts right through leather like its paper. This is what im looking for with ability to sharpen quick, edge retention is not as important.

After using super blue steel I dont think I can go down below 1 percent carbon. I dont know too much about different steels so maybe it has more to do than just the carbon content. I have white number 2 kiridashi (heat treatment questionable) to compare to and the difference of this to super blue is noticable.

Are there any common to source steels that have 1.2-1.3 percent like white steel or preferrably 1.4 percent carbon like the super blue. If diamond rod can touch up super blue in a few seconds that would be my choice if I can find a maker who can forge super blue.
 
There is more than just carbon to be concerned with. Super blue is very wear resistant so it will always outperform White steel that lacks some of the alloy elements of blue steel.

I don't think you will find anyone outside Japan (besides MC) that will forge Blue steel. If you find a Japanese maker don't tell them you will be touching it up on a diamond rod, they might never speak with you again.

If you are cutting a lot of leather and seeing the advantage of a more wear resistant alloy such as blue steel why not go with a PM alloy?
 
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The way you'll hone your knife will rely on upon the honing instrument you have. On the off chance that you have honing steel that is normally free when you buy an arrangement of blades then you could utilize that. You simply run the knife, serrate by serrate down and up the steel to hone its valley and point. Ensure that you wipe the honing steel legitimately to ensure that not blazes from your past honing session stay on the steel.
 
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There is more than just carbon to be concerned with. Super blue is very wear resistant so it will always outperform White steel that lacks some of the alloy elements of blue steel.

I don't think you will find anyone outside Japan (besides MC) that will forge Blue steel. If you find a Japanese maker don't tell them you will be touching it up on a diamond rod, they might never speak with you again.

If you are cutting a lot of leather and seeing the advantage of a more wear resistant alloy such as blue steel why not go with a PM alloy?

Lol wat?!

Why the adversity to.diamond abrasives?

I'm very curious.
 
If you are mainly cutting leather with it, why not one of those Japanese marking knives/kiridashi that I see in various woodworking tool catalogs? They are from Japan, and I don't know steel, but are chisel ground and sub $50 I think last time I looked. Might do the job on the cheap.

Edit- seems like most are a lamination of blue steel and another type, so would fit requirements pretty good I think.
 
7 degrees per side is what im looking for. The knife I have is chisel grind specifically for leather (15 degrees), super blue steel that is 1.4 percent carbon. Cuts right through leather like its paper. This is what im looking for with ability to sharpen quick, edge retention is not as important.

After using super blue steel I dont think I can go down below 1 percent carbon. I dont know too much about different steels so maybe it has more to do than just the carbon content. I have white number 2 kiridashi (heat treatment questionable) to compare to and the difference of this to super blue is noticable.

Are there any common to source steels that have 1.2-1.3 percent like white steel or preferrably 1.4 percent carbon like the super blue. If diamond rod can touch up super blue in a few seconds that would be my choice if I can find a maker who can forge super blue.

52100 at 64 RC will most likely outperform super blue at 60 when cutting leather. But it does depend on how the maker heat treated it.

10V or something similar would probably cut forever if done right. Clean leather isn't much of a challenge. You probably couldn't take it down to 7 dps like you could with a finer grain, harder steel though.

How big of a knife do you need? What would you want it to be? A wharncliff? Something that looks like a skinner? Drop point? Full tang?

If you're looking at Murray carter then you can spend a little bit of money. You have options, keep them open to something other than just Japanese carbon steels.

And there's not a whole lot of advantages to a knife blade being chisel ground unless you're chiseling something. Cutting leather isn't chiseling unless you're chiseling a design into it.
 
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http://lekoza.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=90 Just the blade same profile. Convex bevel low angle.

Something about super blue has that extra sharpness that I can feel on my finger tips. Could be something to do with the what is added to the steel that white does not have, I dont really know.

I may go with store bought, laminated construction white steel or blue 1 kiridashi, dual bevel, like the link above. The bevel and thickness I could get professionally sharpened.

Need a new rough grit and stone flattener. Atoma 140 or 400 for quick touch ups.
 
Something about super blue has that extra sharpness that I can feel on my finger tips. Could be something to do with the what is added to the steel that white does not have, I dont really know.
It's called Tungsten Carbide. It has 2% of it. I would think CPM-M4 would be a very acceptable substitute.

Need a new rough grit and stone flattener. Atoma 140 or 400 for quick touch ups.
I'm getting more confused about what you want. 400 for a quick touch up would leave you with a toothy edge, not something that's razor sharp. You'd want a diamond paste loaded strop to keep it razor sharp.

Thing is, both Super Blue, Blue, and White are better known for their ability to take a razor sharp edge. If you're not going to bother most of the time, then why not go for something like CPM-10V?
 
Im trying to find something in the middle that can sharpen the edge in 30 seconds. I think 1200 japanese grit would take too long but maybe not if its diamond stone. I can sharpen under 30 seconds with white steel and dmt XC which i think is 220 grit.

With green compound I cant get the edge sharp enough, it only polishes the blade or gets rid off burrs. Its probably fault on my end. I probably need to strop faster or change up my technique. A lot of people using leather knives use green compound only but I cant get it to work how I want it to.

I will go with your option on the diamond compound. Full set up. Atoma 140, shapton 1k, 3k stone (optional, may want it toothy), diamond compound.

White steel or equivalent fully sharpened with setup above and stropped with diamond compound to sharpen. I am tempted by powdered steels, if I only use diamond compound to strop I could strop it sharp quick.
 
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Do you normally push cut the leather, or do you saw through it? Which do you prefer?

If green compound doesn't work for you, one of two things is happening:
-The steel is too hard or wear resistant for it to have much effect.
-There's too much damage to the edge(chipping) for the strop to have much effect.

I suspect the latter is what's happening, and that should be expected if you take a clean low carbide steel at high hardness to an extreme low angle and repeatedly cut into a material typically known for having impurities.

And traditionally speaking, anything that dulls slowly is going to take longer to sharpen. The very thing that lets the knife stay sharper longer is going to act against you when you sharpen it.
 
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