Steel

I

illumination

Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
125
Can someonw please help me out. The Spyderco site does a good job telling me the chemical differences between the different steel types (e.g., AUS-6, VG-10, S30, etc.) but it doesn't tell what that all means. Where is the line drawn between ok, good and great?
 
And why does Spyderco use different blades for their stainless (AUS-6) and FRN (VG-10) lines of knives? I like the stainless body...but I am under the impression they have inferior steel on the blade. And isnt that what is important?
 
Illumination, Go back to the Spyderco web site and look under steel element information. This will give you a good basic description of what each type of alloying metal brings to the mix.

christopher
 
Thanks...I had seen that page, but looking at it, I got the sense that there is a lot more to good steel than just adding the right ingredients. I'ts kind of like me in the kitchen...give me a recipie book from America's best chef...and I will still cook something that just doesn't taste all that good. I guess its difficult to precisely say what is good and what isn't very good, but I've got some old knives made of 420 stainless that are not at all imressive.

Is AUS-6 better? Is AUS-8 even better? Is VG-10 better still? Is it worthwhile to go beyond that?

In the end, I'm looking for strong, durable, corrosion resistant steel that will hold a good edge. I guess most but not all fit the bill. Just hard to tell.
 
illumination said:
And why does Spyderco use different blades for their stainless (AUS-6) and FRN (VG-10) lines of knives? I like the stainless body...but I am under the impression they have inferior steel on the blade. And isnt that what is important?
Click to expand...

Starting in 2006 sometime, all stainless Endura and Delica will have VG-10 instead of AUS-6, so that's an upgrade you may want to wait for.

Not sure about SS Dragonfly or Native II though.
 
In theory, VG-10 and S30V are close to the top of the heap, but I have been using one with AUS-6 for almost two weeks now, and it is still popping hair. I have been using it daily for things such as opening mail, plastic packaging, and anything else I can cut within reason.:D I am starting to look more at design and less at the steel. I think my steel snobbery is fading.
 
Well, we have a sensitive problem here. Searching for the best steel is a tricky challenge by itself because you need to define "the best". A steel may be very good for my needs, and close to useless for someone else.
A strong steel may be difficult to sharpen (see CPM-440V / S60V). Helas, it can even be a strong steel, yet with a poor edge retention. Usually, a strong steel has a lot of carbon, therefore is more prone to rust.
Corrosion resistance is also relative. For instance, I have no problems with my ATS-55 knives, while others complain about them rusting too easily (I guess it depends on the geographical area you're living with and the chemicals they put in those apples you cut with the abovementioned steel) ;) Not to mention the steel treatment and the manufacturing process, those are two factors that may lead to different results not only at the same steel used by diffeent companies, but even at the same steel, at the same knife from different batches.

These said, I found VG-10 to be the best compromise in terms of edge retention, corrosion resistance and easiness of sharpening, all with a decent pricetag. Hope this helps.
 
dialex said:
These said, I found VG-10 to be the best compromise in terms of edge retention, corrosion resistance and easiness of sharpening, all with a decent pricetag. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

I agree with just about everything you said there Alex. S30V is good stuff and I've never been disappointed in any knife of S30V, but I seem to have better results with VG-10 because my cutting needs seem to be better filled by the toothier edge that VG-10 usually takes.

That said, I've been EDC'ing an S30V Native for about three weeks and am remarkably impressed with Spyderco's heat treating of the steel. I haven't had to touch it up yet, so the edge retention is impressive (some days all I cut is tape and string and other days I'm doing some pretty heavy duty packaging).

But it all comes down to individual needs. VG-10, S30V, BG42 and all the wonder-steels could be overkill in some instances. Buck makes good use out of 420HC in some very heavy duty knives with no problems. It performs exceptionally well at a lot of tasks and is a very tough steel... if it wasn't a good choice for those knives, they'd pick something better.

VG-10 in my experience sharpens like 420, but keeps that edge almost as long as S30V.

AUS-6 is a decent steel, in line with 440A or there abouts in terms of edge retention. My experience with it is that if you let it get too dull, it's hard to bring back to a good edge without some work. I've never tried Spyderco's AUS-6, so it could all be in heat treat.

AUS-8 is a good steel. Aside from Buck's 420HC, I really don't like lower grade steels in working knives. The beauty of the Buck 420HC is the heat treat, and I've found that it'll hold an edge on par with AUS-8 and is a little easier to sharpen.

Keep in mind that these are just my experiences and a lot of things factor into how well a certain steel performs in the hands of any given person.
 
Better can depend on many factors. Most people want better cutting and edge retention and that is what Spyderco focuses on I think. S30V and VG10 both have Vanadium carbides making them top choices for that nice biting edge they both have when new.

I like both those steels fine but as far as toughness both are not as good I don't think as other choices out there.. 154CM is probably tougher but won't take that biting edge like we see on the other two steels. Its all a matter of what you are wanting it for. The CPM site gets into some graphs showing wear resistance and toughness. Some steels have high wear resistance but are not very tough. Some offer the best of both or come closer to it. For a folder mostly all you need is a good edge keeper with moderate toughness. The real brutes are going to be fixed blades mostly.

I reprofiled the blade of my Salt 1 a while back and the heat from doing so changed the blade so that it holds an edge as well as any of my other Spdyercos now. At least the upper third of the tip does now. I think the hardness must have went up a notch when I put a point on the tip for picking splinters. Many compare the H1 to AUS6 in edge keeping. I think if you want to step it up a bit all it takes is a bit of work hardening with that one. That H1 is some mysterious stuff. :D But getting back to AUS6. I've got a few knives using that and it seems to be an ok steel. I like AUS8 better though and prefer to draw the line there as to what I'll accept anymore. Personally I think AUS8 out performs ATS34 and/or 154CM and takes a better edge.
 
It's really hard to compare steels when they are on different knives. Perhaps more important than the properties of the steel is the edge geometry. A couple thousanths of an inch in the edge thickness or a few degrees of the edge angle will make an unbelievable difference. The edge style makes a huge difference, too. I recently got a CRKT M1 in AUS 8. The edge is hollow ground which makes it very sharp, but heavy cutting will cause it to chip or roll. On the other hand, a convex edge (just the edge, not the whole blade) won't seem as sharp as a hollow ground one, but it will out perform it in nearly all cutting tasks (aside from opening mail, perhaps). AUS8 is a fine steel, no doubt, but I don't think it can compare to 154cm.

- Chris
 
I think a company's steel choices in knives depend upon three things, end use of knife, price point and marketing. A well designed knife used for EDC can get along with AUS6 or 8 with no problem. For spyderco's "collector and fan" base, selling a knife above a certain price point demands a "better quality" steel which often doesn't greatly increase performance but does increase sales. Higher priced steels are added to help in marketing. For example, Spyderco has a stainless endura in a cheaper steel vs. a FRN in VG10; the difference is both to bring the models in at a specific price and help keep sales strong in the FRN line. Another example is adding a new wonder steel to an existing design helps give new sales to old designs with minimal design/development costs.
 
brownshoe said:
A well designed knife used for EDC can get along with AUS6 or 8 with no problem.
Click to expand...

All the AUS6 knives I've used over the years had one thing in common - the edge just didn't hold all that well. In fact, the edge didn't really hold well at all. There are many much better steels about nowadays. It's not just the high end steels like S30V that beat AUS6 easily, VG-10 for instance runs circles around AUS6. When performance is what you're looking for, AUS6 isn't really an option anymore.

I therefore can't really see any reason to buy a knife in AUS6 nowadays, unless the knife is a unique design you really want to have. And even then I wouldn't really want to EDC such a knife.

Hans
 
Habeous, my experience with AUS6A from spyderco and CRKT has been good (4 knivees). Many others on this forum have also had positive experiences. However, I have read that not all AUS6A is the same and some of the knives from non-Japanese companies may claim AUS6A, but it may not be the exact product. In addition, as with all steals, the heat treatment does make a difference. Habeus was the AUS6A you have come in contact from a reputable manufacturer?
 
Joe beat me to it but, Go to the Toolshed and check out the Steel FAQ sticky by Joe Talmadge. Thanks again for this Joe.
 
the AUS steels have some nickel. VG-10, ATS-55 and N690 have some cobalt. Research the steel guides and it'll tell you what these extra elements do. Some are much the same and some are very different. After a while you'll learn what the higher end steels are. I always thought thought 420hc was a real low grade steel...ya know real cheapo then i was told properly heat treated it really pretty good? varies
 
I too have started to become a steel junkie but then you realize that you may sooner or later break or ruin your hi-dollar knife when you could have had something cheaper like 420hc. The beauty of Spydies is you can get an inexspensive knife with hi-dollar steel for a great price and can afford to use it and replaace it if you have to!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top