Steeling a Convex Edge?

[Mtn Hawk]

I don't think I've ever read anything about steeling a convex edge, only stropping.

Does the convexity make steeling unnecessary or is it something that should be done?

Thanks!

 

[tabeeb762]

Steeling has no use on any grind IMO.
If an edge needs steeling it means it is weak. A steel will straighten it for a short time but weaken it further.

Skip the steel and go straight to the compound loaded leather to get rid of the weak metal.

 

[Grampa]

I agree with tabeeb - steeling is nothing you should do with any decent knife, regardless of the edge grind. There are so many better ways to keep a knife sharp, or bring back an edge, than steeling. Just cuz chefs who don't know any better do it, does not mean you should!

Learn ot use a strop - it's the best you can do for any edge grind! Keeps a sharp knife sharp!

 

[Mtn Hawk]

tabeeb762 and Grampa--

Thanks for your replies! What you say makes sense. Better to remove weak metal than bend it back. I thought stropping was more for polishing than metal removal, though.

Outside the kitchen, most of my knife use is in the wilderness. There I would be limited to just a plain leather strop, as I need to keep the weight and bulk down and don't want a mess in my pack from a loaded strop and/or leaking or melted compound.

 

[mete]

My VG-10 kitchen knives with concave edge are steeled ! The softer the blade the more appropriate steeling. Steeling S30V is a waste of time !

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

Gosh guys! I steel my blades all the time, just about all of them, from my soft-steeled kitchen knives in 1095 right up to my wife's new Benchmade Kulgera in S30V!

I steel my Barkies, most all of which have convex edges, as well as my customs, many of which have convex edges.

It doesn't hurt any of them, and hones them right back up again. First I steel, then I polish the edge on a ceramic rod, then I strop the edge. Works wonderfully!

Andy

 

[el dub]

I agree with tabeeb - steeling is nothing you should do with any decent knife, regardless of the edge grind. There are so many better ways to keep a knife sharp, or bring back an edge, than steeling. Just cuz chefs who don't know any better do it, does not mean you should!

Learn ot use a strop - it's the best you can do for any edge grind! Keeps a sharp knife sharp!

Chefs may not know better but butchers do and they do use steels to touch up their blades.

 

[Robert Ptacel]

Chefs may not know better but butchers do and they do use steels to touch up their blades.

I worked in a meat packing plant for 20 years and we used steels but they were smooth as glass.

 

[Grampa]

I worked in a meat packing plant for 20 years and we used steels but they were smooth as glass.

That's a heck of a lot better than the grooved ones that come with the standard kitchen knife set.

Personally, I think stropping is better yet, even on plain leather without compound.

YMMV

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

That's a heck of a lot better than the grooved ones that come with the standard kitchen knife set.

Personally, I think stropping is better yet, even on plain leather without compound.

YMMV

Grampa, I steel first on an ancient, big, butcher's steel, then strop on my pant's leg or the edge of a heavy piece of cardboard.

The steel does a great job of raising a wire edge. The stropping just removes that. It works wonderfully.

Andy

 

[Robert Ptacel]

That's a heck of a lot better than the grooved ones that come with the standard kitchen knife set.

Personally, I think stropping is better yet, even on plain leather without compound.

YMMV

You must know that stropping is not practical in that type of enviroment.

 

[Mtn Hawk]

The steel does a great job of raising a wire edge. The stropping just removes that. It works wonderfully.
Andy

My understanding is that a steel re-aligns a knife edge, making it sharper, but that steeling isn't considered "sharpening".

Raising a wire edge, or burr, is part of the sharpening process, indicating the extreme edge has been reached.

I usually remove the burr by stroking the hone at a slightly higher angle than that which raised it, but I've heard they can also be removed by stropping. I would think a hone would remove a burr much quicker than a strop, but I haven't tested that so can't be sure.

 

[smegs]

My understanding is that a steel re-aligns a knife edge, making it sharper, but that steeling isn't considered "sharpening".

Raising a wire edge, or burr, is part of the sharpening process, indicating the extreme edge has been reached.

I usually remove the burr by stroking the hone at a slightly higher angle than that which raised it, but I've heard they can also be removed by stropping. I would think a hone would remove a burr much quicker than a strop, but I haven't tested that so can't be sure.

You are correct sir. Steeling a blade only realigns the edge. Butchers will steel a blade to extend the cutting session until having to hone. Boning and fillet knives are thin and will eventually roll when hitting a bone, hard fish scale or table etc. Since the material being cut is always the same (flesh), you can get away with steeling for awhile. A rolled edge will snag and tear. You can feel it. Old timers don't even look at the blade. They just steel the blade when they feel it hanging up. A good trick is to remember which side of the blade got the last swipe of the steel. If it's still snagging, steel again and make the last swipe on the other side of the blade.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

My understanding is that a steel re-aligns a knife edge, making it sharper, but that steeling isn't considered "sharpening".

Raising a wire edge, or burr, is part of the sharpening process, indicating the extreme edge has been reached.

I usually remove the burr by stroking the hone at a slightly higher angle than that which raised it, but I've heard they can also be removed by stropping. I would think a hone would remove a burr much quicker than a strop, but I haven't tested that so can't be sure.

Yes, I've been told this a dozen times since I started taking part on this board, but to me, it's all just a *degree* of sharpening, as opposed to the one being one thing, and the other, another entirely.

What it comes down to is this; if the edge is very dull, then a fair amount of metal must be removed to re-form it. For example, on my heavy choppers, the edge must be repaired periodically as it is more prone to real damage do to the forces involved. Those edges usually are brought back by using a belt grinder, then a steel, then a ceramic rod, then a strop.

For my lighter use knives which very rarely sustain that kind of damage, it is only necessary to steel them, use the ceramic rod to polish the bevel, then strop them.

Each of these steps, *in my experience*, sharpens the blade, but only by degree.

I can raise a wire edge on the grinder or on the steel. The rod and the strop are used to remove the wire edge, and polish and refine the edge.

That's my procedure; other people will have their own.

I should say too that whether a wire edge is raised depends also on the type of steel the knife is made of. Some types of knife steel will raise a burr more readily than others.

Andy

 

[Mtn Hawk]

smegs-- Thanks for the good info and confirming that I'm on the right track with my thinking.

Andrew Colglazier-- I tend to define words and terms the same as the majority of people on the forum. This helps to keep confusion and misunderstanding, which seems to occur more often with knife sharpening than a lot of other fields, to a minimum.

Since steeling doesn't sharpen (using the most common definition of the word) I have to wonder if you are really creating a wire edge (as you do with your belt grinder) by steeling, or just moving weakened metal around.

But the bottom line is if it works for you.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

smegs-- Thanks for the good info and confirming that I'm on the right track with my thinking.

Andrew Colglazier-- I tend to define words and terms the same as the majority of people on the forum. This helps to keep confusion and misunderstanding, which seems to occur more often with knife sharpening than a lot of other fields, to a minimum.

Since steeling doesn't sharpen (using the most common definition of the word) I have to wonder if you are really creating a wire edge (as you do with your belt grinder) by steeling, or just moving weakened metal around.

But the bottom line is if it works for you.

As you wish. I do wonder sometimes if folks really understand what is physically happening when they sharpen their knives.

Try this; take a knife of yours, say, in 1095. Take your steel to it, if you have one. Steel only ONE side of the blade, give it maybe 20 strokes.

Feel the edge. There will likely be a difference from one side to the other that you can feel with your finger. One side will catch the skin more than the other. You should be able to feel that a wire edge has been created.

If you go ahead and steel the blade on the other side, again 20 times, then alternate, all you are doing is removing metal from one side, then the other. The wire edge proves this, and it can be removed just like any other wire edge, by stropping.

In case that doesn't convince you that a steel can indeed remove metal and sharpen, get a clean white cotton cloth and wipe your steel with it. You should see some gray residue come off on the cloth. That would be metal, removed from the blade, while sharpening.

Andy