Steroids? Worth the trouble and risk for personal use?

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Sid Post

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No, I'm not talking about Major League Baseball ;)

In the next few weeks, I will start some physical fitness training that includes some weight lifting. I want to get as much out of my time in the gym as possible. All the protein powders and other stuff seems like a lot of hype and marketing but, I see some potential for intelligent and informed steroid use.

From reading on-line, 1-AD (1-Androstenediol) from Ergopharm seems to be a logical choice that is safe. I am looking for a little boost and think that taking a single tablet for short periods of time might be worth the cost. While this will disqualify me from the Olympics ;) , it is legal for a middle aged civilian looking for a boost isn't it? For low dosage limited use, this doesn't seem to offer negative health consequences but, I'm certainly open to informed opinions as I don't know much about them right now.

Should I consider something along the lines of those body building powders or vitamin supplements? I would like something that helps me recover from my work out and build muscle mass. I don't want anything extreme (like injectable steroids) or terribly expensive.
 
I'd stay away from steroids. They're banned for a reason, and the short term advantage you get in muscle gain will go away as soon as you stop taking them. You're far better off starting with a plan that you can continue to use long term, and working up to it slowly. Look beyond the next two months and consider what kind of shape you want to be in two years from now. Steroids aren't going to get and keep you where you want to be. Creatine is said to help a lot with muscle recovery, my brother had some success with it about a year ago. A multi-vitamin is always a good idea, in addition to a balanced diet. Cutting out sugar and eating more fruits and vegetables will go a long way towards improving your total health and fitness. Seriously, don't do the steroids. Think long term. Good luck.
 
I have had good (though not instant) results over the last year and a bit taking just protein and creatine supplements. Personally I wouldn't touch steroids with a ten foot barbell. Obviously as a result my recommendation is not based on experience.
 
Howdy,

All steroid precursors/pro-hormones were quietly banned a few months back. You won't be able to find them in supplement store anymore unless it's a back door type of deal.

Right now, for mass and strength gains, I'd simply go with a high quality protein powder, and perhaps creatine. Also make sure to keep your fat intake adequate in order to maintain good testosterone production.
 
I had a module last year on forensic toxicology and sports drugs was one of the topics and the side effects of steroids are quite bad. You can actually get addicted to it. Prolonged use can increase aggression in a person. There's also hair loss and some other nasty stuff. Plus it bites back when you get older. Some irreversible stuff happens and when you're old your joints and limbs aren't up to it. I think this is 'cos steroids do increase muscle but the change is so fast that the ligaments and tendons can't keep up and they get injured easily.

Best advice i can give is to just take the normal protein stuff. They do work in that they help the body recover from intense exercise. It's also important that you start off slowly if you're not that muscular right now. A too intense workout will surely damage you in the long term.

Since you're not aiming to be Ronnie Coleman, you don't need the steroids. Look at the body-for-life website and just see what a nutricious diet and a bit of exercise can do in 12 weeks. They might recommend using their product(myoplex), but this is only as a meal replacement thingy. So you don't really need to take it. Just make sure you have your 6 meals a day.
 
I am well aware of what true steroid abuse can do. Everything from hair loss to liver failure is possible. From what I have read, this is typically associated with injectable steroids and massive doses. I know that oral doses can be abused as well but, small doses should not be excessively risky. Even aspirin can be abused. I remember an interview on some news show like Nightline with Lyle Alzado (sp?), a former NFL Linebacker for the Steelers I think, who attributed his cancer to Steroid abuse. In his case, his liver failed first due to the massive doses of injectable steroids he took as part of the "dirty dozen" or whatever they were called at the time. I clearly want to avoid that scenario.

There is also the legal status to deal with. Let me be very clear when I say, I do not want to break any laws, none, no infractions at all. So, this clearly means that back room deals and other "shady" transactions are not under consideration at all. Everything must be legal or, I will not do it.

Regarding dependence and aggression, aren't these symptoms typically associated with people truly abusing steroids? Limited use in small oral doses shouldn't cause me to become overly aggressive or overly dependant, should they? I mean, we're not talking about CRACK COCAINE or CRYSTAL METH (a local junkie favorite apparently) type of fast addiction are we?

Tendon, joint, and ligament damage are best avoided too. I hope to do this in a few of major ways by using good technique and not bulking up excessively fast or lifting too much weight too early or agressively. When I was younger I hurt my shoulder pushing too much weight around when I started to lift too aggressively.

I am not looking to bulk up really big but, I do want to build strength in the limited amount of time I have to work out. At one time I tried the 6 small meals a day as a way to boost my metabolism but, that had negative consequences at work because "I was not properly focused and ....". Basically, taking 5 minutes out to make something and eat it was too much for my lead at the time so, I am perhaps overly sensitive that issue today.

1-AD seems to be a safe oral Prohormone that does not have the side effects or drawbacks mentioned above so, it is basically the one under consideration for limited low dose use.

It also seems I should get one of those protein powders with all the other stuff in it to help build muscle mass and aid in recovery after a healthy work out.

Thanks for the help so far!
 
I had a roommate in college that took steroids for a year. I don't know what type. He had all the visible side effects, acne all over his face, back and chest; 'roid rages, and eventually quit over fear his testicles were shrinking. I couldn't say that they were for sure (and never cared to see the evidence first hand, but he was concerned this was happening). I don't know how fast these symptoms would develop for the next guy, but I witnessed the acne and anger happening to him.

I think most of the benefit of steroids comes from helping you recover faster so you can workout harder and more frequently. In this sense I think they would help someone who was already well conditioned more than a beginner.
 
Although you don't state your age,your references of your younger years implies that you are getting up there(40+).If this is the case the testostorone(sp?) levels are starting to fall and when that happens you can forget about new muscle mass.Might be a better plan to concentrate on maintaining what you already have and focus on muscle tone and leave the bulking up stuff to the young bucks.
signed
55 and fit
 
SOmething that nobody mentioned yet: most people get all hooked up on training,going excessive for a couple of months and then eventually give up. If you overdo it at the beginning (with steroids for example) all those impressive muscles you'll develop will turn into even more impressive lumps of fat once you give up. Think rationally about what you want.
 
if ya are just starting to work out that is the wrong time to do steroids, people that do that always hurt themselves, FWIW, people do steroids AFTER they have wotrked out a good while (like a year or so....) and are peaking out and wanna get by a point they are stuck at (ie bench 300lbs and can only do 290 lns) if ya are just starting out thats a waiste of time anyway.

i didnt like creatine myself it messed my stomach up, and androstendione didnt help at all, i have heard muscletech supplements are ok, i tried them and they messed my stomach up had to quit after 2 days. anything legal nowadays isnt gonna do much, imho almost all of them (if not all...) are a waiste of $$.

i have always heard oral anabolics are the very worst way to take them they are harder on your liver/kidneys (much harder) orally due to the way they are metabolized by them.

lyle alzado died from an obscure form of cancer IIRC that was possibly linked to growth hormone, which he admittadly used in high doses when he was doing his comeback to the NFL, he had also megadosed on all sorts of other steroids since his college days, which i am sure was bad also, he used all the time, the worst thing ya can do, most reccomend 6-10 weeks on 6-12 months off, he did the opposite (ie 6-12 months on 2-3 weeks off) which is hard on the liver/kidneys they are working hard all the time w/no rest. have read they are not that bad for ya in moderation, but few are moderate, stacking several at one time for too long a time. still, am sure they are not good for ya.

i did them in the mid 80's a few times (ie 1cc testosterone enanthate 200 mgs/ML weekly and 2CC dianobal 2X week for 10 weeks, i did this cycle 3 times ever) discussed it with my dr a few yrs ago, he said (after testing blood/etc) i was fine that that was a small dose, for a short time, shouldnt have hurt me. stuff worked too, and ya dont 'lose' all the gains when ya stop, thats BS, ya lose some, but keep probably 40-50% imho, i was benching 365, went up to 425 and went down to about 400.

this day and age (and in the 80's too, really) its a bad idea to do them, i can see maybe if ya are a pro athlete and can cycle off/etc and get away with it though thats hard now (but far from impossible, i still dont think most can test for growth hormone) nad ya are talking millions of dollar contract, but to look 'buff' or bench 400lbs (my reason) really is kinda silly, also most stuff ya see is fake (i bet 10-20%is real, i have sen LOTS of fake stuff, and whats in the stuff ya are injecting in yourself, whats it made of, no FDA appoval on that lol hell could be anything might have the AIDS virus in it, or ??) and then there is the matter of 2-3 shots a week with a 20 gauge 1 and 1/2"" (one and one half inch) long needle, not for the faint of heart lol, i saw my bud almost faint one time, but thats another story lol (he was 5'10 240 lbs not fat at all) then there is the possible legal problems, which can get pretty bad.

so, all in all i would say to work out hard, eat right, get lotsa sleep, and skip the juice, just too many bad connotations imho, and in most cases its simply not worth it, but ya have to decide for yourself, but by all means work out a while, get a good program going, learn to lift, learn how your body reacts to training/diff lifts, eat right, all of these things WAYYY before ya even THINK about steroids, imho.
 
It just seems like you are really determined to take steroids. Not one person has replied recommending you to use it. Most people who take steroids take it for competitive and monetary reasons. I just don't think you need to.

Just check out body-for-life. It really is a good program if you stick to it. And if you buy the myoplex stuff you don't even have to take time off to prepare your meals. Just gulp it down . They even have ready made shakes. Gives you all the protein you need so you don't need to buy any other protein powders. Plus their workout program is really short. Just 45 minute sessions for the weights. You can't get any simpler than that.
 
I would stay away from steriods. I was into bodybuilding when I was younger (along time ago :eek: ) and heard and saw alot of bad things they can do. If it's not natural like protein powders and vitamins, stay away from them. You are only lying to yourself about your abilities. Just like the baseball players have been lying to their fans. :grumpy: It may take time the old fashioned way but your health is the most important concern. Good luck. ;)
Scott
 
First let me say....there are no such things as 100% safe drugs. There are negative risks associated with something as seemingly innocent as Tylenol. People have died from acetaminophen toxicity. Steroids are not legally prescribed by doctors to build muscle mass or enhance strength for athletes, they are given as therapy for specific medical conditions. During which they may take baseline liver and kidney function tests and blood pressure (to nema a few) then monitor them during steroid treatment. They will also use test results to detrmine dosage.

Just because "everyone" is doing it, doesn't make it safe. Just because there are no outward symptoms of problems, does not mean everything is fine. Also, are you willing to trust your health to someone with no formal medical training and put something in your body that may have been designed for horses or cattle? You may as well play roulette with a revolver. Come on man, use your brain here.

You will get more out of a workout safely by observing proper technique and eating a proper, well balanced diet and getting plenty of sleep. There is even speculation that people who take supplements aren't necessarily seeing a benefit from them, they are just working out harder because they "think" they are getting a benefit from them.

If you want to experiment with your body by using steroids of questionable origin, not under a doctors care then be advised that it could kill you in a most painful manner.

At the very least, just stick to protein powders, vitamins, good diet, sleep, and good technique.

Be safe, be healthy.
 
But you are far from there.

Let me clarify things for you a bit.

First, my background. I have an advanced degree in exercise physiology and sports nutrition and I'm a researcher for a nutrition company. I'm also a competitive athlete and I've spent a fair amount of time in the gym as well as around some world-class athletes. I like to think I have some experience on this topic. :) On top of all of that I'm a knife nut.


Anyway, there are many forms of ergogenic aides and anabolic steroids are just one form. There absolutely are performance-enhancing benefits from "steroids" but as a novice you have SO MUCH to develop before you should even think of using them.

You mention not wanting to use protein powders. Well, unless you are taking in a minimum of 1 gram of protein for every two pounds of bodyweight every single day, you are not going to have the anabolic effect you are looking for (that's on or off the juice).

Creatine is one of the best supplements to come along since we started looking at isolated compounds and their roles in athletic performance. Most individuals undertaking a strength training/hypertrophy program would be best served with simply taking creatine and enough protein AND training properly ("properly" is something that has many definitions).

What I'm getting at is that drugs, for you, at this point would be a complete waste. You'll have tremendous gains by correct training and diet. If you dont' have both, you can take all drugs you want and they won't help you.

WAY TOO many people think that steroids are a quick fix, it's simply not true. You have to bust ass to get gains while on a cycle, and busting ass for a novice is going to create gains anyway. So why do a cycle?

As an aside, you keep saying that orals are safer than injectables, and it's just the other way around. Orals are really tough on the liver and injectables bypass that pathway. They ALL have side effects and you have zero idea where they are made and what you are getting.

I'm not advocating drug use, but I just want to put it into perspective.

As far as the many prohormones on the market (they are not "banned" at this point, there is just legislation out there to have tighter control). Most will just lighten your wallet. My company does not sell them and we have quite a few world-class athletes using our products.

Bottom line is go to a good local gym and take your money earmarked for 'roids and hire a certified personal trainer and have her/him help you reach your goals.

Hope this helps
AL
 
There may be a mass hysteria about steroids right now, but you should stay away from them, IMHO. This is something you should be discussing with someone that has a medical degree, or who is a medical student, not with a bunch of knife nuts, like myself ;). I value everyones opinion on these boards, but except for the gentleman above, most of us are not medical professionals. I will say that most people who use them have adverse side effects. Have you had a hard time building muscle? If you are big already, even if steroids were safe, I do not think they would be the answer for you. If you are trying to look the monsters in magazines like Muscle and Fitness, forget it. If you want to be ripped, at 40, you might be too old. I would focus on making your body healthy first, do some running, joggin, walking, light weight lifting. After you are at your fighting weight, then start tearing apart your muscles to make more. Remember, the really big guys who are in all the competitions, this is their life. They sleep a good portion of the day away, they train most of the rest of the day, and they have to eat constantly to keep up their weight. I could stand to lose a few pounds, but I am extremely strong already. I would seriously contemplate if this is a road you want to go down. Again, don't buy steroids, your nuts'll fall off.
 
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Steriods, like any drug, are not all that bad. I f you have the money, and live near LA or San Fran, there is a doctor that will prescribe you steriods, HGH, epoetin, and lots of other stuff. There is a very good, intelligent article on steriod use and abuse in which the author, in a gonzo style so lacking in todays media. Visits this doctor and is prescribed a whole regimen of performance enhancing drugs. He tracks what each does, any side effects, and the results. I believe it was in Outside magazine.
 
Sid Post said:
So, this clearly means that back room deals and other "shady" transactions are not under consideration at all. Everything must be legal or, I will not do it.


1-AD seems to be a safe oral Prohormone that does not have the side effects or drawbacks mentioned above so, it is basically the one under consideration for limited low dose use.
Click to expand...

Howdy,

Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004
http://www.theorator.com/bills108/s2195.html .

This was the bill that was signed into law. It's the one that closed the door on 1-AD and all other pro-hormones previously allowed under DSHEA(Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994).

The government in its wisdom has made buying that bottle of 1-AD as illegal as buying a bottle of Dianabol:(.
 
Placebo effect :confused: I can't see it with someone not looking for factual information.

When I was younger, I backpacked with up wards of 60% of my body weight all day. What I found was that at 56% my knees started give and at 62% my knees could not take it. I should note that this was carrying that weight all day up and down good grades for possibly miles at a time.

While I'm not over the hill yet, I'm well on my way and approaching 40. No, I'm not looking to bulk up like a professional athlete but, I did want to at least discuss the possibility of some artificial aid. While I was looking at steroids, it seems clear to me now that I need to look at the protein supplements whether it is some powder or a more specific diet.

Regarding steroids in general, I have used them in the past under doctor's supervision for allergies. It was a heck of lot more effective and cheaper then the combination of prescription drugs I take these days. The one shot they gave me did so much tissue damage I limped for a couple of days until I recovered. And, yes I had my blood chemistry worked up and get regular kidney and liver tests back then. I still those tests today from potential side effects from the allergy medicines I'm on. Geez, pollen can be an ugly thing for some people.

While this may not be a logical place for many to ask about such a controversial topic, the type of people that frequent this forum have experience with steroids that has helped inform me.

While looking on the Ergopharm website, I hit a link to an industry trade group which enlightened me to the legislation mentioned above.

Clearly, this is something that is illegal for me so it is absolutely no longer under consideration. As I mentioned above, no "shady deals" or other questionable behavior is acceptable.

Beyond the legal issue, it is clear to me that at this point steroids are inappropriate even if they were legal. For my current physical state and goals, steroids would not be an aid to faster results. As mentioned the money they cost will go a long way to paying for protein powders or a better diet in general. Even better, a personal trainer would probably yield superior results at this time and would help me avoid injuries from over doing it or bad technique.

In the meantime, when I can find the time, I will continue my 9 mile walks which I finish in 2 hours and 15 minutes. Problem is, that is a lot of time and I just can't get into the jogging thing. Plus, I need the strength in my shoulders, neck and back. Adding some bulk to my arms wouldn't hurt but, I have a descent horseshoe on the back of my arms and reasonable biceps. I just want more...more balance...more tone....and some more bulk in a reasonable amount of time in the gym. I am not committed to the "body for life" program yet but, it seems to offer the sort training and body improvements I want.

All things considered, including this controversial topic, value was provided in the discussion and I appreciate it. Perhaps some personal trainers would have steered me in the right direction but, a lot of them are just out for a fast buck and would sell me the steroids because of the profit margin. I have run into a few people that are way into hype and didn't really convince me they were talking from a factual perspective. In the end, I found what I needed here....THANKS!
 
You can get a kick butt workout in an hour of bicycle riding. Good, not great bikes can be had these days for less than $700.00. The aerobic benefits are nothing short of incredible, and you can use the bike riding to go to the gym if it is 10 miles or less from your house, in that 2 hours or so, you would have a complete workout regimen.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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