Stick not a sword, bolo, machette, etc.

K

KillerMan

Joined
Dec 9, 1999
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301
Something I notice in most FMA I have seen is the fatal tendency to treat the stick like a blade. It is not. Sword skills do not equal stick skills and vice versa. While there is a bit of overlap, the two are extremely different weapons. For example:

The stick can be used as a lever/prybar to take down the opponent when it is gripped with two hands.

Getting hit with a stick may break some bones, but probably won't kill you. But if you take the same blow from a machette, chances are you will lose your arm, head, and probably die or be unable to continue the fight.

Sticks also have the annoying tendency to get cut in two when used against a blade.

So I propose that each artist make a choice for themselves: are you a stick fighter or a sword/bolo/machette fighter? Tailor your training accordingly. Contrary to what proponents of many arts say, you cannot just pick up any weapon and try to use it in some sort of universal manner since every weapon is different. The only constants are that you are using something other than your own body to inflict pain upon another individual who wishes to inflict pain upon you.
 
Killerman, Great Topic! It also seems that many disarms are stick only because if you tried the same technique with a person with a blade you will get badly cut. For example, the parallel disarms, where you grab stick to stick.
 
Hi Killerman:
I'm afraid I don't totally agree with you. Granted a blade is a blade and a stick is a stick, and each does things the other cannot...but there are some rather "universal" methods and lots of overlap. A diagonal angle strike is the same whether it is with a stick or a machete/bolo/etc. A roof block is the same whether executed with a stick or a blade. The FMAs are a conceptually based method designed so that there is as much overlap as possible in order to speed the learning process. To imply that the stick and the blade methods are unrelated is just not accurate in my opinion. But as you suggest, to not recognize that there are differences in application between the two would also be an error. I see what you're saying, but I think it needs some more qualification. It was just a little too broad and sweeping in its statements. :-)

Keith

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"Walk softly and carry a big stick!"
Teddy Roosevelt
 
Actually, you can grasp the blade of even a very sharp sword and use it for some maneuvers. It's a matter of A. Not allowing your hand to slide and B. Putting the pressure on the flat/spine.

Of course, if your opponent has a sword, that's much more of a problem in close.
 
Killerman,
I have to respectfully disagree. I am an instructor in Lucaylucay Kali and while we teach certain specific techniques for most types of weapons, general use patterns are the same.

When my wife and I trained in traditional Kung Fu, each weapon had it's own distinct style and set. Even very similar weapons had a different set and we did not do any actual combat training to verify if this worked or not.

When we began training in Kali it soon became obvious that the approach of teaching weapon characteristics such as long/short, light/heavy, impact/cutting made a lot more sense. IMHO 70% of the way a weapon is used i.e. striking patterns, body englsih, follow thru, is similar between impact/cutting weapons of similar weight and length.

One of the great things about the Lucaylucay Kali system and most of the Kali and Escrima systems I have seen or trained in, is that if you have learned how to fight with the standard 24-30 inch rattan stick, you can pick up a machete, sword, bolo of similar lenght and weight and use it to good effect.
Your moves might not contain all the special tricks that can be done with that particular weapon, but if you have zoning, deflections, check hand and distance down you'll do fine.

One of the demonstrations we do at a stick work seminar is at the end of the class, when they have been working with rattan stick for 2-4 hours. I then pick up a bolo, machete, sai, axe or similar length/weight weapons and ask if anyone knows how to use them. We occasionally get a hesitant hand from someone who learned a sai form or axe set, but normally they say no. I then pick up these various weapons and demonstrate that while they might not know a traditional sai form or special tricks for that wepaon, they have a basic use pattern from the stickwork that is effective. This is normally accompanied by the blinding flash of conceptual light bulbs going off.

Using two hands on your weapon for leverage in a disarm is a trick of impact weapons, but the majority of disarms in my system are not dependant on two hands, hand switches, etc. specifically so they do translate. As to sticks getting cut in half, this works well if the stick is braced or held motionless at the proper angle, but if someone is zoning and deflecting properly with a rattan stick against your machete, you are going to be hard pressed to do more than nick it a little.

Hey Donna, is that more like it?
 
This is a little off topic, but I've even picked up my 22oz. Estwing framing hammer and gone through drills. The balance and feel is different but it can be done. It seems that once you learn how to swing a stick, you can pick up many objects/edged weapons/tools and use them almost the same way that you'd strike with a rattan stick.

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K. Williams
Modern Arnis Student
AKTI Member #A000978

[This message has been edited by K Williams (edited 04-23-2000).]
 
While we're on the subject of universal principles and cross-over technique, thought I'd mention an area of training for you guys to try. Awhile back I took one of my Serrada sticks (21 inches) and turned it into a training tomahawk/belt axe by building up a blade of cardboard wrapped in duct tape. Started playing with it to figure out what stick methods still applied and what the hawk could do that the stick couldn't. Came up with my own little "tomahawk system" based conceptually on what I already had learned from the FMAs. That's the beauty of this....understand the concepts and no one has to "teach" you how to use a given weapon...you can figure it out on your own. I found that many of the stick methods applied to the hawk. In fact, going back to the stick after working the hawk gave me a new appreciation for focusing the power of a strike into the distal 1/3 of the weapon. I also figured out all kinds of cool hooking traps to do with the hawk that you can't do with the stick. So as I said similarly in the previous post...a stick and a tomahawk are different weapons, but even they have many commonalities in movement and application.

Keith

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"Walk softly and carry a big stick!"
Teddy Roosevelt
 
While I'll agree that a stick and a bolo are not the same weapon, I have to disagree with Killeman's comment.

The planes of attack, footwork & zoning, body mechanics & allignment for generating & delivering power, redirects, etc do carry over. Even disarms, locks and throws (even two handed) can be done with and against a bolo, depending on the type that you use. Certain things will be emphasized more with one weapon than the other and some technics and strategies won't carry over, but why should anyone limit themselves to just one or the other when the two are such great compliments to each other.

Also, from some stand points it's good to treat a stick like a blade. For example, when I spar I treat the other person's stick like a blade and attempt to avoid all contact with it. If there's an exchange where we both land shots, I always consider myself the looser. It helps me respect the potency of the stick rather than taking a shot to give one.

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton



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Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."


 
Let's take it further. A bolo is not a kris, kampilan, katana, talwar, or rapier.

There's a few folk who take some stuff literally and ignore a) there own preference of weapon and b) the use of certain weapons.

Ex. John Clements friend did a katana kata with an Italian rapier. Result: Armor piercing tip goes through deltoid and ends visit to museum.

Ex. Someone tries abanico with a Muslim Kris. Result: backstrap of sword goes back into his wrist.

Here's a smart quote from Dave Fulton
"Some sword folks pick up a stick and find out they don't have enough power at the end. Some stick folk take a sword and they can't cut into the target."
 
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