Stick Welder

Rick Marchand

Rick Marchand

Donkey on the Edge
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I'm NOT a welder but would like to get a small machine for stacking billets and welding forging steel to rebar for handling. I was going to go cheap and get a Century AC/120 Stick Welder but wanted to get some opinions, first.

Rick
 
I can't give a higher recommendation of the relatively cheap 220v mig welder from HF, #94164. At $179, it blows away the $110 stick welder I was considering. I'm NOT a welder either, but with this thing, you couldn't tell. I've welded 1/2" to 1/2" with no problem and had pro looking welds.
 
Maybe not.


I've used a stick welder
220v input, DC output with 7018 rod and it will what you want, plus weld up a trailer, put a jig or grinder / stand together,
maybe even weld up a press frame.
I was in the 80-120 ish and higher amp range - heaver is more

The specs tab

The specs in that listing that make me hesitate
20 percent duty cycle, 2 minutes welding, 8 minutes waiting

really small electrodes
I don't see those thin thin rods on the shelves of my local stores
3/32 seems really common here.

thickness specs are optimistic, but only list sheet metal


The new inverters consume less power than the old transformer types, but
110v 15 amp input
I saw someone use one & it was non CSA rated
meaning it really needed a 20 amp circuit but came with a 15 amp plug
nothing but blown fuses . tripped breakers & stuck rods
and screaming
See the back panel for amp rating, anything more than 12 amps ona 15 amp circuit is an overload


How much of a hurry are you in?
If you check the Kijiji and other ads, estate sales, bankruptcy auctions
you can get an old tombstone type welder
longer cables
auto darkening helmet
DC output
bigger output

and get it for a low price and good value.


If you have the flexibility to wait and attend bankruptcy auctions,
you can often get the 10 or 15 thousand dollar welder for 500 ish.
Keep it for yourself, or trade it in at a welding supplier for exactly what you want.
Just watch the supply input and make sure it takes single phase 220v
if you want to keep it.

Try real welding suppliers and see if they have any used trade ins that suit you.
Let them educate you on what you really need and what it costs new.



I really think you won't be happy with the welder in the link.
What's the return policy?
Makes sure you can return it and give it a try.
 
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Why a stick and not MIG welder? A MIG would be a lot more versatile; useable for making other things around the shop and home.
 
I have one of these that I haven't used in years and maybe it's just what you need ;) (and it's does DC)

300x300.jpg
 
I have exactly the welder pictured above and have never had a prob with 1/16" to about 3/16" rod.
Its not mig but theres never been anything I couldn't weld with it.
Ken.
 
This is the kind of input I need fellas, thanks. I have to keep the cost down but up to $300 might be doable. I will check the internet listings in my area as well. I have a 220v plug in my shop on dedicated double 20amp breakers.
 
I think this forum

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=27471

is good for welding info.


On a MIG unit,make sure you can get tips, wheel rollers, handpieces and tubes they wear out.
There are several standards.


How about this?
Maybe too far away, but it's an example of what is available.
$ 65

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-equipment-Lincoln-Electric-Welder-W0QQAdIdZ325794158

No DC, and it needs a bigger supply than 20 amp
but new is 3-400 ish

DC will give you a nicer weld, less spatter and more that a real welder would tell you.




http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...C-225-S-K1170-Stick-Welder-W0QQAdIdZ326419158

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-equipment-Lincoln-arc-welder-W0QQAdIdZ324586450



Stick is less sensitive to work outdoors, a stronger flux sheild is more wind resistant, something like that.

MIG on billets,you're probably doing this inside with flux core wire ?
 
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I'm seeing 230 @ 50-80amps in the specs of some of these machines.... is that draw?.... I'm running a double post 20amp breaker
 
Being in the welding supply business, I will tell you to buy QUALITY, the cheap stuff, may work, for a while, maybe forever, HOWEVER, if it breaks down and you need parts, good luck. There are Miller, Lincoln, and Hobart, Linde/Esab machines out there 30,40,50 years old that you can get parts for.
That Lincoln stick machine that was pictured, there are thousands of those out there, they have been around for 40+ years, still going strong.
For an entry level stick machine, you cant beat them, and in that catagory is the miller thunderbolt ac/dc also. Used Miller Dialarc 250 are another, almost bullet proof! Whatever you decide get and ac/dc preferably in 220volt(easier on the wallet as far as electricity goes) and some welding rod prefers DC(7018, you can get an ac7018, but it doesnt run nearly as well as the DC version) Just my .02
 
I love a wire welder(MIG) but the comment that a Mig is more versatile than stick isnt entirely correct.

Electrodes that are readily available for a stick machine:Most specialty stuff you can buy in 1# tubes or occasionally by the stick, in addition to bigger packages: Steel, obviously, Stainless steel, aluminum(is a real P I T A in a small Mig welder unless you have the right setup, plus you need a dif type of gas), cast iron(nickel alloys) (it is available in mig wire, but not cheap, not small quantities, and another type of gas is needed), and numerous other specialty alloys, from tool steels, to hardfacing(wear resitant alloys).

Granted I do mostly Mig(steel and aluminum) but have a thunderbolt ac/dc just in case.
 
Do I really need an AC/DC 230v machine to run a bead across a stacked billet or weld a 3/8"x1.5" wide bar to the end of a piece of rebar?

I'm not looking to make trailers or anything..... just stack and tack.



Rick
 
Rick Marchand said:
Do I really need an AC/DC 230v machine to run a bead across a stacked billet or weld a 3/8"x1.5" wide bar to the end of a piece of rebar?

I'm not looking to make trailers or anything..... just stack and tack.

Rick
Click to expand...

I asked a similar question, not too long ago.
I thought MIG would be simpler.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...er-for-canister-and-dry-weld-damascus-billets

It leads me to believe that arc is the way to go for me.
It's more versatile.

I think it's cheaper to setup too.


Maybe a small MIG would do just what you wanted?
An import like the HF may be OK for you ?
If you don't like it, can you take it back?
CAn you get it repaired?

A used ac dc tombstone, yes new breakers and wires, but it won't suck too much power at the settings you will likely use.




Take a few samples of what you need to do to real welding suppliers.
They have demo machines and you can run them then and there.


Maybe they have a used trade in?
Let them fill you in on which ones are good, which ones are full of plastic drive parts & use odd tip threads.

A brand name welder like Lincoln that you buy in a retail store may have inferior parts to the ones you buy in a welding shop.


I really like the auto darkening and adjustable shade helmets, well worth the 1 or $200


If you want to hand hammer layered billets now, how far away is a press build that the arc would be helpful on.?
 
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You can find those Lincoln welders used, for relatively reasonable prices all over in my neck of the woods(I have no idea about Canada). There are 2 on craigslisst here for under 100$.

And you asked a valid question "do I really need". I have been in the welding/welding supply business for 21 years, and you may not "need" it now, but once you have a welder in your possesion, all kinds of projects will just "appear". You know, stand for a vise, tool rack, bracket here, a bracket there, "this would work better if I did ----, or added this piece.

You would be surprised how many people that didnt "need" a welder are back in 6 months looking for the bigger/better mousetrap.lol
 
Lots of good info in this thread, but I bet you now have more questions than answers...

The "normal sized" or "tombstone" transformer based stick welders that are all over the place take a 50 amp 240 volt single phase outlet. But they are rock solid reliable and can be found pretty cheap sometimes. I would not suggest buying any of the small stick units out there, unless you are getting an inverter unit with about 150-200 amps output. These are more efficient and will run on your 20 amp circuit. But they are lots of money ($700-2,000). One advantage of an inverter type stick machine is that will usually also allow TIG welding

There are some nice small MIG machines out there that will run just fine on 20 amps of 240 volts. Max thickness in one pass is about 3/16-1/4" assuming you put a proper bevel on the work. But you can weld thicker stuff with more passes, and with MIG there's no slag to chip or brush off. And there's flux core wire if you are welding outside or are too cheap to buy gas.

The folks who sell Miller machines will try to scare you away from Lincoln machines by telling you about the plastic parts in the Lincoln wire drive...We have both Lincoln and Miller machines in the shop and we have not melted the Lincoln yet. We have burned up a Hobart Handler 3 times...YMMV The difference between the Lincoln welders sold at the "big boxes" and the Lincoln welders sold at the welding supply is that the welding supply machines have the gas solenoid and a regulator included. The transformer and other bits inside are the same. I spent a long time talking to an engineer at Lincoln about this very subject before buying my first welder. The gas solenoid is essential if you want to MIG rather than flux-core and the kit with the solenoid and regulator is well over $100 so it may be a wash to buy the machine at the welding supply

My advice, which is worth what you are paying for it...go with MIG. You can use CO2 for shielding, it's cheap. The learning curve of MIG is pretty fast. My students are usually making good MIG welds with a bit of coaching in under an hour. Stick, because you have to advance the electrode while maintaining arc length and travel speed, can take some students 6 hours of practice before they can consistently run a good bead. And MIG is a bit cleaner with less fumes. The only downside is that a decent MIG machine is about $500 new and there's a bit more money in the gas bottle
 
I have a 115v Hobart Handler mig unit and it's been great.
Welds 3/16" plate, use it with or w/o gas and the best part is
it's very portable.
 
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One more vote for an AC/DC tombstone type, 180-230A output. An undersized welder will frustrate you often, and a 20% duty cycle sucks. For what you'd pay for a tinker-toy, weak, no-name 110V welder new, you can get a good used tombstone on Craigslist almost anywhere or (heavens!) at a pawnshop...

AC only would be fine, too. But if you can find one, DC runs like butter compared to AC and is well worth it.

Old stick welders are a pretty safe item to buy used, as electrical tools go. I've seen ancient tombstone welders that looked horrible fry in a great bead on heavy steel.

I did have a little flux-core mig welder like that Ryobi, and was impressed by the work it could do. Mine was a Craftsman 120. I did a lot of rebar handle welding and billet tacking, as well as general weld projects with steel up to 1/2" thick. If the Ryobi runs like that, I'd recommend it for sure.
 
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I got a Lincoln AC/DC arc welder (the red one previously pictured) new through Home Depot for a bit under $500 a few years back. In NH I picked up an old Craftsman AC/DC arc welder for $50 via Craigslist. So far I've only plugged either of them into clothes drier receptacles, because that's all that has been available. They both have worked fine for the basic welding I've done, which probably hasn't gone much over 1/2" stock. I use 6011 and 7018 rod, mostly in the 1/8" to 3/32" range. When it comes to thin sheet metal I struggle a little, but can usually get it done. I'm no pro and do it this way because it's all I know. I still revert to torch and brazing rod or the old coat hanger trick sometimes.

The closest I've gotten to MIG is using the tips for injectors in aspirated venturi atmospheric burners. I've heard good things about MIG welding though. Seems like I've read on several occasions how folks use them to dry-weld their billets flux-free and without any welding metal to contaminate the billet. I still don't quite understand that though.
 
I couldn't find much at all in Craigslist near you, Detroit metro was the closest area with much for tools. I don't know if you make it across the border much, but here's a good stick welder for $75. I have a Craftsman 225 myself, it's great.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tls/2628342222.html

And a Lincoln for $200
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/tls/2675619490.html

A mig/stick combo for $200
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/tls/2675605063.html

Oh, and don't know if you need one, but here's a good sized post vise.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/tls/2677220860.html

And what looks like a GREAT deal on an oxy/ace rig if you need one.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/tls/2676929776.html

Sorry to get carried away. Detroit's probably a bit far for you.

Phil, I think you're thinking of TIG welding there with the no-filler-metal billet welding.
 
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