Sticking up for ShopTalk

Status
Not open for further replies.

james terrio

Sharpest Knife in the Light Socket
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
22,618
I'm a little miffed. There seems to be quite a bit of bitching and moaning in and about my favorite part the forum lately - namely, that any nincompoop with an internet connection, a chunk of metal and a dream can post their questions, WIPs and concepts in ST. How dare they?!?

Worse yet, the bitching has spilled over into other, supposedly more genteel subforums. I think that's short-sighted if not downright childish. ST is for talking shop. C&H and the Knifemaker's Gallery are for showing off finished works to potential customers and to get feedback from peers. ATG and W&C are for shooting the breeze and complaining about stuff.

It's the internet, guys; anyone can play. Yes, there is such a thing as a stupid question... Lord knows, I've asked my share. There's never a shortage of doofuses who don't really know what the heck they're talking about, yet offer plenty advice... I've been guilty of that, too. It's going to happen... it always has and it always will.

But no one forces any of us to read or answer any thread or post. The vast majority of those type of users and their threads fade away within days. Neither my pursuit of knowledge nor my business is hampered by them, and neither is anyone else's.

Let's take a moment and sincerely reflect on what ST is now, and what it was just a couple of short years ago. Thanks to exceedlingly patient yet diligent moderation, a whole slew of egotistical, disruptive trolls have been banned, and we're all better off. I remember when foolish arguments with no point at all used to rumble and thunder and drag on for weeks. That, more than anything else, is what stifles learning... and it's no longer tolerated. ST is a far, far better place now because of that.

I've spoken personally with some big-name makers who no longer post in ST, too. What gets overlooked is that part of the reason they're not posting a lot is that they're pretty dang busy making knives... not pontificating about who should or shouldn't "wear orange" or the definition of a WIP. Their frustration with dumb questions and argumentative know-it-alls is very real, to be sure... but they too have the option of ignoring them.


I humbly submit that more often than not, discretion is the better part of valor, and simply walking away from some sort of perceived insult or waste of our precious time is more honorable than picking a fight about it. Starting threads that seem (rightfully or not) specifically designed to discourage interested persons from sharing their enthusiasm is counter-productive to the furthering of our craft at best, and at worst makes us look like a bunch of crotchety old elitist curmudgeons.

Lighten up, guys.
 
James the question was (and is), why are many of the successful knifemakers posting in Custom & Handmade and not in Shop Talk? The same knifemakers used to post in Shop Talk. Why did they stop?

I've seen a major change since I joined fourteen years ago.

Chuck Bybee
 
JT: Good post. I understand.

Coop
 
I completely understand where you are coming from, too, James. In the short time I have been on this forum I have seen several of the sub-forums go through changes. Like the tides, any social group will have it ups and downs. Remember too, that chaos/turmoil often promotes change and growth. I think all we can do is try to keep ourselves in line with how we'd like things to be. If you need time off, take it. You can't expect things to remain the same as new members roll in and out.

Hang on and try to enjoy the bumpy sections of the ride. It is what it is and it only matters if it matters to you.
 
Shop Talk is an incubation chamber; its where people get a chance to grow. Its also a place to fail. Not all who begin the journey finish it. If people just starting out were to post in the C & H forum they would not be taken seriously no matter the quality of their work.

This is as it should be. But what must be kept in mind is without that incubation chamber there would be no one progressing to the point where they would find acceptance in the C & H forum.

So even though there is some irritation to be buffered in Shop Talk its important to answer the questions and tolerate the inane. If not the parade of fine makers who post in the C & H forum will soon dry up.

Fred
 
As moderator, I try and encourage all constructive discussion and criticism. When it turns personal, it is time to step in.
From time to time, it is necessary to call out a poster who is being insincere about wanting help, or false about his abilities or claims.

As a forum member, I try and encourage those who are trying their best, and don't mind being Scrooge when someone needs a reality check.
I have to plead guilty for posting before thinking it over for an hour before hitting the send button..... more than once.

Most of the folks here are great guys...and gals. They have lives with ups and downs, and are not always perfect in their responses.

The best way to deal with someone who annoys you is to let the bad comments roll away by not posting a response. Sometimes silence speaks louder.
 
Sticking up for Shop Talk???????


Since all you left out of your post was my name, let's go ahead and get right into this.

Please explain to me how anything I posted could have been construed as an elitist dissuading new makers from learning?

I really want to know. I have spent a ridiculous amount of time taking photos and videos of how I do things, and then taken the time to share them here with descriptions as well as fielding questions that follow. So is that all instantly erased because I posted a thread asking people to slow down with the camera and keyboard, and spend the time getting their hands dirty instead?

If you're sticking up for Shop Talk, how many videos of methods have you posted here? How many tutorials have you posted here? How many new makers have you had in your shop, teaching them? How many years have you been sticking around here because of friends and trying to share with other makers? I mean with knife making, not with policing spelling and grammar.

As far as I can tell, going along with your OP here, nobody forced you to read or post in that latest thread I started. But you had an emotional reaction to it and posted in that thread and started this one. So you're allowed to do that? Why shouldn't I have been able to do the same?

Well, since it's been made clear by some of the resident experts that my posting is not welcome because I am a crotchety old curmudgeon elitist... I will be glad to pack up my unwanted crap and leave you guys be. :)
 
Everybody is getting overly emotional... lets look at what we are actually arguing about...

We have members who are trying to shape Shop Talk into a venue that is informative and focussed.
We have members who are trying to shape Shop Talk into a venue that is supportive and non-judgemental.

If we just try to understand that we ALL want to make this place better and realize how easy it is to miscommunicate through a keyboard, we would end up with a sub-forum that is informative, focussed, supportive and non-judgemental.
 
Nick,
It is probably the Mayan Apocalypse that has everyone on edge.

Lets all calm down, and have a pleasant holiday. I am locking this thread as it isn't really productive.

No one wants anyone to leave.

Merry Christmas Everyone !

(unless the Mayans were right :) )
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top