Sticks and Stones?

C

copper

Joined
Mar 1, 2000
Messages
79
I hate to ask this question, because there are a million different opinions, and 2 million different kinds of sharpeners out there. But I finally have some good knives, and they are getting dull.
Rather than ask which brand is best, let me ask some general questions.
The "clamp" style, like the Lansky and Gatco seem to be idiot proof (which I like) but seem like they would take forever. Do you completely sharpen a 1" section and then move on to the next inch? And if you leave the clamp in one place and slide the stone too far to one side (to sharpen more than the 1" at a time) aren't you changing the angle? While I'm at it, is there any difference between the Lansky and the Gatco?
Moving on to "sticks", I hear people rave about the spyderco 204. This seems to make sense because it would take less time. But doesn't it take quite a bit more skill to keep the blade at the angle it should be? And will I end up rounding the corner off of my tanto-bladed Stryker?
Finally, those in the know, with lots of sharpening skill seem to have bench stones and sharpen "freehand". I assume this is not for beginners, but let me know if I'm wrong.
Well that's my "question". Sorry for the length, but I know you folks understand and are full of good information. I don't know, mabey I should just buy them all! I guess I wouldn't be asking if I could do that.

thanks for any info.
 
I own the Gatco system, and I find it to be not only idiot proof, but also quick;

* You clamp the blade in
* You run the stone in diagonal strokes up along the blade on one side (no more than 11 light laps)
* Do the same for the other side
* Unclamp the blade

What made me decide to get the Gatco over the crock stick arrangement was the array of choices for blade angles (the Gatco has settings for 11, 15, 19, 22, 25, and 29 degrees).

Out of all those angles, I only have a real use for three of them, but they're the three I want. Most of the crock sticks don't have much in the way of choices, even the tri-angle adjustable ones.


------------------
-Gregory Zolas
tinsta@hotmail.com
 
PART 2

Before you start grinding the first dust particles of metal off your knives, I assume you've been using a chef's steel on them? Hmmm? Sad to say, but even the chefs at the restaurants I've worked at didn't know the difference between truing and sharpening.

That out of the way, I must say that crock sticks are quite easy to use. Since they're at an angle, you just keep the knife perpendicular to the floor, which is quite easy to eyeball. Doing long edge and the tip edge separtely should prevent the corner of your tanto from being rounded by sticks (or clamp systems, for that matter).

The old fashioned way of freehand is a different animal. It is very hard to keep the angle constant, as it takes a LOT of practice. The human eye has a hard time estimating fractional angles of an object held sideways. Many prop their thumb up under the spine of the blade and use it as a rough gauge.
frown.gif


Hope I answered all your questions!

------------------
-Gregory Zolas
tinsta@hotmail.com
 
I, too, would vote for the 204. If you can hold a knife up and down, you can use the 204. I have no experience with the other style of sharpeners, but I know that in 1/2 hour, I can sharpen every knife in the block on my kitchen counter, and every knife that has resided in a pocket of mine in the week or two prior (Generally only three, maybe four) and be missing all but a few square inches of hair on my left arm... And I can read the paper while I do all of this, provided I bothered to clean off that mch coffee-table space...

I do believe there are better stones out there. I intend on buying a good waterstone or something similar for the straight razor I got. However, the straight razor comes with a built-in angle guide, and I have a reasonable amount of experience with a flat stone anyways. I feel the crock sticks in the 204 are enough gadgetry to work well, and not enough to be too much. And they do serrations. Try that with the lansky or gatco.

On the Tanto topic, nearly any system you try will eventually round out the corner on an American Tanto. This is not really bad, but can change the original look of the blade. But even a flat stone will eventually wear out that corner...


Stryver
 
Copper,
I started with stones and steel about fifty years ago and it didn;t take the kid long to get the nack of it, so I don't see why it should be any harder for an adult. I've tried using some of these gadgets mentioned above and frankly I don't care much for them. They work, especially for small knives, but whatchagonnado when it's time to sharpen a real knife? A good bench stone can take care of most any sized knife at any angle.

After a while you'll stop trying to match the grind angle that came on the factory edge and start to put the one on the blade that best suit YOUR needs. Benchmade, for example puts an edge on their knives that is best used on an axe. So the use of a course bench stone is the first course of treatment I give them. Then I refine the edge and I'm in business. Try this with those gadgets and by the time you're finished you'll be too old and crip'ed up to use the knife.
wink.gif
smile.gif

Dan
 
I own a Lansky system and I never use it. The angle of the stone changes dramatically depending on where you clamp the knife as well as on other factors. It doesn't work as well as it should, in my opinion. I switched to bench stones and am totally happy with that "system".

------------------
My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/frames.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html

 
I use both.
Stone to remove a lot of steel, e.g. modifying angles (frequently too high).
Or creating a nice back bevel.

Stick to keep it sharp while using it.
Too slow for removing a lot of steel

I do prefer Gatco to Lansky:
more/better choice of angles, larger stone is faster.

"Stick" is Spyderco 204, which is an excellent choice.

For REALLY big knives I am using an edgepro, probably "the best" but a mess to use.
wink.gif



------------------
D.T. UTZINGER
 
I just sharpened my AFCK with my Gatco kit last night. It's been a long time since it was last sharpened and it's done some nasty duty since (not the least was installing a TV distribution system in a friend's house. While I used wire cutters to cut the cable, my AFCK did all the stripping. It also cut the openings in the wallboards for all the boxes.) Since my poor AFCK was very dull, I started with the corse stone and worked all the way to the ultrafine stone. The whole process from getting the thing out of the closet to putting it away took about 15-20 minutes. About five minutes of that is spent in setup and take-down and cleaning up. I don't like leaving things all oily, so I may spend more time in cleanup than some folks. I was not trying for a speed record. Also, if you have several knives to do, then the setup, take-down, cleanup time will be distributed over those three. Budget maybe five or ten minutes per knife. I don't go for "shaving sharp" on this knife since such an edge won't last. My experience has been that the 19 degree slot leaves a very sharp edge that holds up well. Yesterday's efforts left a very nice edge.

No, you don't go one inch at a time. As you slide the stone up, you also move it from side-to-side across the blade. For a knife up to four or five inches, you should get the whole edge with each stroke.

It is not by any means idiot-proof. I'd encourage you to do as my dealer encouraged me to do, start with a couple of cheap old knives until you get the hang of it. One of the tricks I've found is that you need to flip the blade over frequently. I take a few strokes on one side, flip it over, take a few strokes on the other, flip it over, take a few strokes, flip it over, three or four times, then change stones and repeat three or four flipping cycles, change stones, etc. Then, again, being a balisong artist, I like to flip my blades around....



------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
Actually, I first saw the Gatco at a knife expo in Phoenix. I had a Cold Steel tanto Voyager that I had dropped tip first on concrete (ouch!), and I offered it to the company rep to do with as he may.

He proceeded to use the course stone to bring the edge back away from the ding, then worked through the medium and fine while talking to me. The point was NOT rounded the slightest bit by the process, and the whole operation took less than 6 minutes. My knife came out shaving sharp, and I walked out with a new Gatco kit.

I've used this kit to sharpen everything from my kitchen Chef's knife to my array of pocket knives, and I found it extremely easy to use the way he told me (use the fine stone in diagnal cross strokes up the blade, about 11 laps on one side, then 11 on the other). For knives larger than 6", it's necessary to reclamp it, but most of my daily use knives are 6" or less. Sharpening strokes move diagnally up the blade, in the direction of the spine (so there's no "foil wire" created that would need breaking off).

Those who think rounding of edges of tanto blades is inevitable should try a Gatco or Lansky kit.
smile.gif




------------------
-Gregory Zolas
tinsta@hotmail.com
 
Like Chuck I flip the blade from one side to the other even before I get a burr, at least 10 to 20 strokes a side. I use the Lansky and it will do fine up to 6 inches before reclamping. For regrinding edges the clamp styles work very well. For quick touchup The Spyderco works really well, but for me I find the stroke seems a little wierd, I just use the sticks and not the v holder. But that is just me
 
I've had a Lansky for three years. I don't use the clamp but I like the fine and ultrafine ceramic stones so I use them free hand. I personally feel it was a waste of money and wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

-------------
Mutant
kevin005@email.com
 
I've had a Lansky for three years. I don't use the clamp but I like the fine and ultrafine ceramic stones so I use them free hand. I personally feel it was a waste of money and wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

-------------
Mutant
kevin005@email.com
 
I have both the Lansky and the new Sharpmaker. I find the Lansky invaluable for thinning edge bevels (ie: Benchmade) using the coarse diamond stone. Very quick. It is also used on all my tanto blades as the line between the primary and secondary cutting edges remains sharp. It is necessary to make mental notes of where you clamp each blade though to maintain the ease of sharpening and save on blade. The clamp will also mar some blade finishes,Benchmades BT2 in particular and I wouldn't dream of clamping Damascus. Use the Spyderco for everything else. Very quick and easy. Results are the same with both when done properly. If you own multiple types of knives, get both IMO.

------------------
It's only a mistake if you fail to learn from it!
 
I vote for bench stones. Its not really that hard to get the hang of it, if you have the right setup. Its a lot more versatile than the "Kit" type sharpeners too because you can get stones for free hand use that are made to sharpen curved edges like gouges and serrations,and things like that. And you don't have top worry about what fits in the clamp on your sharpener. And you can find them in a million different grits, shapes and sizes instead of hunting down somehting the exact right size for the clamping syustem. They're cheap too. A starter set of stones that I would recommend you atleast look at is the tri hone. It runs about $30, and comes with coarse medium and fine arkansas stone, along with honing oil. And its made so that all three stones are held in a rack that keeps the stones up away from the table and gives you room to work. Check it out at www.woodcraft.com

------------------
Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
 
It really depends on the blade, as to what system you use. Some blades are a lot softer of metal than others. Carbon is different from stainless. You have to experiment around. If you have an expensive knife, I would not let it get to where it needs sharpened, you should just keep it honed, usually with ceramic, sense they do not use leather much anymore. But for a surrogated blade, I think the Smith PowerHone is the best way to go, and it's not that expensive. thanks, JohnR7
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top