still having problems with the sharpmaker

[SeeTOPh]

so ive tried the marker trick and im not getting good results on some of my knives. ive got the 2 standard stones and then a pair of ultra fines as well. i know that im at least half decent because i am able to get a razor sharp edge on my Microtech LUDT in m390 steel. it was already pretty damn sharp to begin with but after using it on the ultra fine blades for a couple minutes and then a light stropping on the back of a legal pad it is SCARY sharp. so ive at least got a decent technique cause ive heard that m390 can be a Bi$ch to sharpen. but ive got a pair of AUS-8 blades that i cant even get to a point where im cutting paper. is there a reason that i can get a wicked freakin edge on my LUDT but not the AUS-8? i heard that was one of the cool things about that steel is with some good stones you could start shaving with it. it wouldnt have the best edge retention but at least you could get it to a nice edge.

and man, who else out there finds sharpening their blades theraputic or like meditation? i love it. its just relaxing for me. i love the sound when youve got your knife flush against the stone, i love the repetitive movement and the immediate satisfaction of going from almost tearing paper, to cutting it clean 10min later. well at least with my microtech, im not getting it with my medford or ka-bar dozier or emerson/kershaw.

 

[winnerone23]

Are you working one side, till a burr is on the other side?

I recommend a set of the diamond "stones" for the SM..
It's all I use(and a strop), unless I'm showing off and work my way down to UF..
Then I can, tree top, hairs off my arm..

 

[bucketstove]

Hi,

so ive tried the marker trick and im not getting good results on some of my knives. ive got the 2 standard stones and then a pair of ultra fines as well. i know that im at least half decent because i am able to get a razor sharp edge on my Microtech LUDT in m390 steel. it was already pretty damn sharp to begin with but after using it on the ultra fine blades for a couple minutes and then a light stropping on the back of a legal pad it is SCARY sharp. so ive at least got a decent technique cause ive heard that m390 can be a Bi$ch to sharpen. but ive got a pair of AUS-8 blades that i cant even get to a point where im cutting paper. is there a reason that i can get a wicked freakin edge on my LUDT but not the AUS-8? i heard that was one of the cool things about that steel is with some good stones you could start shaving with it. it wouldnt have the best edge retention but at least you could get it to a nice edge.

and man, who else out there finds sharpening their blades theraputic or like meditation? i love it. its just relaxing for me. i love the sound when youve got your knife flush against the stone, i love the repetitive movement and the immediate satisfaction of going from almost tearing paper, to cutting it clean 10min later. well at least with my microtech, im not getting it with my medford or ka-bar dozier or emerson/kershaw.

is there a reason that i can get a wicked freakin edge on my LUDT but not the AUS-8?
Hi,
Yes, there is a reason, you're new, dont really know what you're doing yet

I can tell because you're not explaining your sharpening procedure in any kind of detail

So please be very very very detailed in describing how you sharpen both knives , what you do , how many times, at what angle, when you switch why...

 

[SeeTOPh]

Hi,


is there a reason that i can get a wicked freakin edge on my LUDT but not the AUS-8?
Hi,
Yes, there is a reason, you're new, dont really know what you're doing yet

I can tell because you're not explaining your sharpening procedure in any kind of detail

So please be very very very detailed in describing how you sharpen both knives , what you do , how many times, at what angle, when you switch why...

i realize im new, but arent m390 blades supposed to be notoriously difficult to sharpen? and if im able to get a great edge on one of those shouldnt one expect to be able to do so on an aus-8 blade? as long as im using the same equipment and doing the same process...

im doing what they say, 40 strokes on the edge of the stone, then switching to flat, then to edge of white, then flat, then edge of UF stones and then flat, and then light stropping. its on the 40degree setting. on the LUDT im doing 30degrees and im treetopping my arm hairs (thats a good one, havent heard that yet).....ill take a short little video in the morning and post it so you can tell me what im doing wrong

 

[bucketstove]

i realize im new, but arent m390 blades supposed to be notoriously difficult to sharpen? and if im able to get a great edge on one of those shouldnt one expect to be able to do so on an aus-8 blade? as long as im using the same equipment and doing the same process...

im doing what they say, 40 strokes on the edge of the stone, then switching to flat, then to edge of white, then flat, then edge of UF stones and then flat, and then light stropping. its on the 40degree setting. on the LUDT im doing 30degrees and im treetopping my arm hairs (thats a good one, havent heard that yet).....ill take a short little video in the morning and post it so you can tell me what im doing wrong

Hi,


I had an analogy about dancing in heels but falling in swimfins, but it floated away from me

So I'm going with a wood analogy.

Thinks of it like this, you have two pieces of wood, and you need to build a square,

So you start off with a stick of ironwood (m390), its slower to grind, but after a few minutes, you've cut it into four pieces, and you've nailed them into a square

You try the same exact thing with the other piece of wood but doesn't work. The other piece of wood is oak (aus8), faster to grind, but it is a fully grown 100 foot tree.


Do you get it? The starting point is different.

Here is what you need to do,
use the flats grey/coarse stones,
and grind left side only,
do 100 strokes, scrubbing strokes, up and down and up and down,
as fast as you're comfortable
after 100 stop and look at the edge,
feel it with your finger or fingernail,
check if you can feel curl of metal on the opposite side from one you were grinding
if you feel a burr, you've achieved your goal,
if you don't feel a burr, do another 100 strokes
it doesn't have to be "100" you can just grind for 1 minute then check
grind for a minute then check
but you should grind by the hundreds
there is no point in moving onto finer stones
until you raise a burr on the coarse stones
on one side
learn what a burr is, learn to detect it, baby steps


after you've raised it on one side,
do the same on the other side,
the first time you do this it might take more strokes or less strokes,
because the factory edge bevels might not be even
so do however many strokes it takes

After you've raised a burr on both sides,
cut it off by cutting into the stone

After that you can do the 40 strokes routine


Then give Sharpening Curriculum a read

Also keep asking questions

Also, if you're grinding for more than 10 minutes,
think about wrapping some coarser sandpaper around your sharpmaker rods,
some edges are very very thick

 

[Goose 7279]

There are a couple of things i can think of are the aus 8 blades new some times new knives take me a long time to get sharp because the outside edge is like its burnished also make sue your not over sharpening if you are sharpening it like m390 you may be sharpening past the sharp edge if that makes sense

 

[Bugs57]

"After you've raised a burr on both sides, cut it off by cutting into the stone"
What exactly does "cutting into the stone" mean? This terminology is also mentioned several times in the "Sharpening Curriculum".

 

[ecallahan]

And use a loupe. You are using the sharpie trick but sometimes it takes a lot of initial grinding to get to that last little bit of the edge where a burr will form. The loupe helps you see that.

 

[cbwx34]

im doing what they say, 40 strokes on the edge of the stone, then switching to flat, then to edge of white, then flat, then edge of UF stones and then flat, and then light stropping. its on the 40degree setting. on the LUDT im doing 30degrees and im treetopping my arm hairs (thats a good one, havent heard that yet).....ill take a short little video in the morning and post it so you can tell me what im doing wrong

No need for video, this pretty much answered the question. Following the instructions may not be enough to get the knife sharp. The Sharpmaker makes a number of assumptions... that the edge is already reasonably sharp (doesn't need a lot of work), and that the bevels are lower than the Sharpmaker angles (usually false), to name a couple.

Others have told you how to solve it using the Sharpmaker... I'm of the opinion that your title holds the key ... the "problem with the Sharpmaker" is the Sharpmaker. Might consider looking for a sharpening method that does a better job... if you plan on getting more into sharpening.

"After you've raised a burr on both sides, cut it off by cutting into the stone"
What exactly does "cutting into the stone" mean? This terminology is also mentioned several times in the "Sharpening Curriculum".

Exactly what it sounds like... hold the knife so the edge is 90 deg. to the stone, like you're going to cut into it, and make a couple of light passes on the stone, which (in theory anyway) removes the burr and any "bad" metal, and leaves a clean edge to refine.

 

[Bugs57]

No need for video, this pretty much answered the question. Following the instructions may not be enough to get the knife sharp. The Sharpmaker makes a number of assumptions... that the edge is already reasonably sharp (doesn't need a lot of work), and that the bevels are lower than the Sharpmaker angles (usually false), to name a couple.

Others have told you how to solve it using the Sharpmaker... I'm of the opinion that your title holds the key ... the "problem with the Sharpmaker" is the Sharpmaker. Might consider looking for a sharpening method that does a better job... if you plan on getting more into sharpening.



Exactly what it sounds like... hold the knife so the edge is 90 deg. to the stone, like you're going to cut into it, and make a couple of light passes on the stone, which (in theory anyway) removes the burr and any "bad" metal, and leaves a clean edge to refine.

Thank you.

 

[bucketstove]

Hi,

"After you've raised a burr on both sides, cut it off by cutting into the stone"
What exactly does "cutting into the stone" mean? This terminology is also mentioned several times in the "Sharpening Curriculum".

Well, its right at the top of it list
-cut the edge off by slicing into the medium stone as if you were trying to saw it in half, 2-3 passes
-this should leave the edge reflecting light

Reflection can be easier to see , if you wipe blade first, use a flashlight , use a dark towel as background


You can see a demonstration towards the end of
Spyderco Sharpmaker Cubic Boron Nitride Rods : first look - CliffStamp

Also the "advanced" tricks in Extreme low grit sharpening : clay brick - Cliff Stamp

 

[bgentry]

"After you've raised a burr on both sides, cut it off by cutting into the stone"
What exactly does "cutting into the stone" mean? This terminology is also mentioned several times in the "Sharpening Curriculum".

I think this is bad advice to follow *after* you've raised a burr on both sides. After you've raised a burr on both sides, the edge bevels should be ground so that they meet in the middle at a sharp edge. Cutting into the stone makes the edge FLAT and removes the sharpness entirely.

If you want to remove the burr, doing a couple of passes at double the original angle works pretty well. But cutting to the stone directly (90 degrees) means that you have a flat blunt edge, and must now sharpen it again.

As a FIRST step, cutting into the stone is ok. This removes any (supposedly) fatigued metal from the edge and gives you a reflection on the edge that you can use to tell when you have ground to a sharp edge. I've used this technique before and it works ok.

Brian.

 

[aleforme]

M390 is very hard to sharpen on a Shaprmaker when the blade is pretty dull. Especially with the standard rods. I won’t reiterate the advise about forming a burr first, removing the burr and then sharpening. This is correct and essential. But you really need the Diamond rods to do this. It can be done with the gray medium rods but it will take a long long, loooong time. The Diamond rods will help tremendously.

Another thing to consider and what might be causing problems with the M390 and even the Aus8 is that the Sharpmaker only works at 30 and 40 degree inclusive angles. If your knives at not at those exact angles or very close, you’re essentially forming a new angle bevel or micro-bevel on the blade. This takes a lot of time unless you have the Diamond rods. And even then will take a little work.

Check out some of the bench stone sharpening videos in the threads. Yes, they are bench stones and involve free hand sharpening, but the concept is the same. The Sharpmaker is doing the exact same thing but you’re basically using a jig with preset angles. Everything that applies to a bench stone and sharpening, applies to the Sharpmaker. You just have to adjust to fit the Sharpmaker ‘s system and limitations.