Still trying to improve my burner - what do you think?

S

Steinmann

Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
99
Dear all. I just want to say that I'm glad to be a member here. You are all very kind and ready to help and I am learning a lot. Further to my trials to get a good action with my burner http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/850215-Please-help-me-with-my-burner-problems?p=9625871#post9625871, please take a look at these pictures (& one movie). After reading all your advices, I made only one change for now: I increased the ports dimensions to 1-1/4" and the burner tube to 3/4", and finally could ignite the burner, but there are still some problems:
1.The flame inside is not a steady one, it is flickering.
2.The flame is orange yellow and not blue – red.
3.The flame is bouncing out through the opening.
From this step on, if I will open the gas regulator, the flame will blow out and burn also outside and there will be a gas smell. If I will reduce the gas amount, the burner will shut down immediately. What do you think should be the next steps in order to get a decent burner flame? Thank you again for your support – Micha.
P.S.
*I found a steel piece (drilled) and put it inside the burner, just for demonstration.
*There's a small burner in front of the forge, it's just lying there (used it to ignite the big one).
burner007.jpg

burner006.jpg

burner005.jpg

burner004.jpg

burner003.jpg

burner002.jpg

burner001.jpg

 
Perhaps it's just my perception of the pics, but it looks like the burner is entering the forge at a parallel to the base.

IMO, the burner needs to be at an angle to the base from above. also, is the burner within the "insulation", or is it protruding through?

What pressure(s) are you running at?

My final question is do you have the fan too constricted?

Charlie
 
Yup, good questions there. Need to play with the pressure (would be helpful to know if you are running 3lbs or 45.) Fan might be putting in too much air. Lots of variables. Going to have to just play with it. Obviously, you can't adjust the burner angle, but the tip might be causing some issues too. Kinda hard to help you.

Just noticed something: put a few more bricks around the front and back openings. Obviously, it needs some breathing room, but I think a little more... containment would help a lot. Just try it and see.
-M
 
Built one a few years back and the Burner was at a steeper angle 40deg, looks like too much air volume or not a big enough gas port opening... Could be wrong.
Also the back and front should have alot more covering... This you have to fiddle with to suite the burner
May be loosing most of the heat in the ends of the forge
 
Looks like a pretty small pipe for a blown forge,the regulator is usually on the tank instead of that close to the forge,is it a low or high pressure...I would go with a larger pipe to start and a lower angle where it goes into the forge for more of a swirl-then you may have to up the orifice size-usually a blown forge is not as finicky as an atmosheric -good luck--Regards Butch
 
TAKE THAT REGULATOR OFF THE TEE!!

Put it at the tank, and rub the hose to the tee. You NEVER want the High Pressure propane running through the hose, and surely don't want it ten inches away from a running forge.
 
Try to cover your blower intake partially, play with how much air it's getting at a range of gas pressures. If it's getting too much air, this should be simple to fix. A choke plate over the blower intake is a common solution.

Try to determine a few things:
What is the gas orifice size of that burner, what pressures are you running, does your blower have a CFM or metric equivalent output rating? These details can help us to possibly determine whether your blower is up to the task. Hopefully you can put a pressure gauge on that regulator.

Also, so people know, this is as I recall a BUTANE burner. So, it may act a bit differently than what we are all used to.
 
Actually, I think we determined it to be natural gas out of the house gas supply. He mentions the cooking flame on the stove in the original thread. Also, the fan does not perform well under back pressure.

There appears to be no exit from the rear of the forge.
 
Please stop and find someone that can come over to help you with it! Your scarring me to death with that REGULATOR Gas is nothing to play with if you don't know what your doing.
Good Luck with it.
 
Please stop and find someone that can come over to help you with it! Your scarring me to death with that REGULATOR Gas is nothing to play with if you don't know what your doing.
Good Luck with it.
Click to expand...

+1 good catch Stacy! thats bad i would fix it first
 
With the front door that wide open, there should be no back pressure to speak of that would mess the burner up. As a matter of fact, as stated above by others, the front door can certainly be closed up more- which could indeed help the performance.

I'm not entirely sure that we did determine the gas in use to be natural gas. The OP did not address that further, it's important to know for sure.

If it is natural gas, it's a whole different ball game. Residential NG supply is very often under 10" water column, (+/- 1/3 psi.)
That means that gas orifices need to be larger. It also means that a regulator one might use for propane would be inappropriate as even the lowest range of pressure would never be reached by natural gas.

I've not built a burner for NG use before, but it certainly seems as if people build welding forges with it no problem. I think a good blower is de rigeur, and if coming off of residential supply I believe only a needle valve is used for gas flow regulation. (Don't quote me here, do your homework.)

Here is a link to an old thread about NG burners. Interesting enough. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/425256-Natural-gas-forge

Steinmann, please find out what your gas is for sure and what the supply pressure is.
 
Salem Straub said:
If it is natural gas, it's a whole different ball game. Residential NG supply is very often under 10" water column, (+/- 1/3 psi.)
That means that gas orifices need to be larger. It also means that a regulator one might use for propane would be inappropriate as even the lowest range of pressure would never be reached by natural gas.

I've not built a burner for NG use before, but it certainly seems as if people build welding forges with it no problem. I think a good blower is de rigeur, and if coming off of residential supply I believe only a needle valve is used for gas flow regulation. (Don't quote me here, do your homework.)
Click to expand...

I use natural gas for my forge and can easily reach 2400F. That is with residential 1/3 psi and a blower. Smallest orifice should be 1/4" and a 1/4" ball valve is used in place of a needle valve. Will never go back to propane as long as NG is availble. It's just to easy to never have to deal with bottles.
 
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