Stock Removal Method

Irezumi

Irezumi

Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Messages
1,357
Hi all,

Just wondering if I can ask the blademakers a couple of questions.

1) I was interested to know if any custom knife makers use the stock removal method of making knives or do you all forge from the beginning? Can anyone think of any makers (with websites) that use the stock removal method.

2) I know about forging from reading a few books, but would like to also know if anyone can recommend a decent book for people only interested in stock removal (I already have two excellent ones that cover the whole process).

3) Finally, for those that do use the stock removal method, how do you keep the blade cool (just dip periodically into water??)

Thanks..
 
There are many makers who use the stock removal method.

I believe that Scott does stock removal.
http://www.razorback-knives.com/

I know Ken Beatty does.
http://www.wacoknives.com/

I know that Ray Rogers does as well.
http://www.rayrogers.com/


Now as for books.
Step by Step Knifemaking by David Boye
It's a pretty decent book.

The best advice that I ever got concerning stock removal came from a friend of mine on this forum. Mike Fitz (He goes by Fitzo) told me to get some thin scraps of wood and practice my grinding. I can't tell you how much material this will save you. When you first start practicing, you WILL mess up. It's part of the learning curve.


And yes, to keep the blade cool, dip in water. If it is too warm for the hand it's too HOT.
 
Anthony Chaney said:
...The best advice that I ever got concerning stock removal came from a friend of mine on this forum. Mike Fitz (He goes by Fitzo) told me to get some thin scraps of wood and practice my grinding. I can't tell you how much material this will save you. When you first start practicing, you WILL mess up. It's part of the learning curve.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Anthony.

Jim Moyer expanded on that wood idea recently with a GREAT idea:
buy 1/4" plywood to practice on. It comes with built-in centering lines. How cool!

For learning real "fine control", try paint stirrers and try to get bevels on both sides.

Edited to remove error.....sorry.
 
Thanks very much Anthony and Dan. I assume that the stock removal method requires an annelled blade, which then needs to be sent off to a heat treater if you don't have the heat treating equipment yourself. Is this correct?
 
There are probably stock removal makers than forgers, But I could very well be wrong. It definitely was that way when I got started in the early 70's. The late Bill Moran did more than anyone to bring back the popularity of the forged blade. His work in Damascus is what really set it off. many writers at the time said that Moran re-invented Damascus. Of course he didn't. It was being made in many places in the world. Germany, Japan. China. India, just to name a very few. We Americans have a habit of thinking if we don't know about it, It doesn't exist. which is really our own ignorance and vanity. There is a whole world out there. In the last decade, we've really woken up! In the early years of forging, the knives were really crude by stock removal standards. if it weren't for the Damascus, which camouflages imperfections very well, Forging would probably have slipped back into obscurity. The Forgers, by and large, have really stepped up their Craft. Using both forging and stock removal t bring us some true master pieces! There is a large rift,as to weather stock removal or forging is best. Only the maker can decide which way he wants to go. Some believe that the old ways are best. Some believe that more modern steels and methods are best. you could write a book on just the argument. I have been known do go either way. I now work in the Loveless tradition, of stock removal. It is what works for me. A fine book on the stock removal process in the old tried and true How To Make Knives by Richard W. Barney and Robert W Loveless. First published in the mid seventy's. It also has a section devoted to the forger by Bill Moran. You can view my Stock Removal blades at http://www.lovettknives.com/ There are some of my forged pieces at www.photo.epson.com Use my e-mail address to gain entry. michaellovett@earthlink.net Mike
 
If you are interested in the wonderful book Mike mentioned, and choose to go to Amazon, I just found out something interesting:

If you search on "Barney and Loveless" or "Loveless and Barney" it will say the book is "currently unavalilable". However, if you search on "How To Make Knives", it is available.

If you are interested in learning knifemaking, it is a "must have".
 
Thanks again guys...I think with your advice and some of those books I will be on my way to at least beginning to produce knives via this method.

cheers
 
I do all stock removal. Yes, you can dip the steel in water when it's too hot. I always have a bucket next to me. I also use it when I make guards or any metal that may get too hot to handle while I'm grinding it.
 
I have seen How To make Knives for sale on E-bay quite often. At very low prices! M. Lovett
 
I do stock removal only but hope one of these days to try a little forging. For now I'm just don't have the mindset to forge. I really enjoy using the grinder and have been trying to improve my grinding skills. For me knifemaking is a step process where I try to learn something new a little at a time instead of trying to learn it all at once. Yes it's very important to keep the steel cool when grinding. I not only dip my blades while grinding I also like to dip Copenhagen while I'm working too. :D BTW, I read every book I could get my hands on that had to do with knifemaking.
Scott
 
Irezumi said:
Thanks very much Anthony and Dan. I assume that the stock removal method requires an annelled blade, which then needs to be sent off to a heat treater if you don't have the heat treating equipment yourself. Is this correct?
Click to expand...

you can grind it at full H/T, some do, Kit Carson would be one of them
you just have to make sure you don't over heat the steel while grinding it

some forgers stock grind..they just forge thier own stock
damacus bilts would be a good exsample
 
Ive seen some makers "forge" a knife out of a square billet by basically hammering out a point, then grinding the bevels much like stock removal, while others forge nearly to final dimensions and grind very little...so there seems to be a wide sway of variations. I've always been curious as to what was faster. Can a skilled forger forge out the profile and bevels on a knife faster than an equally skilled stock remover with his bandsaw, KMG and a 50 grit belt?

I dunno...but im curious!
 
TikTock said:
Ive seen some makers "forge" a knife out of a square billet by basically hammering out a point, then grinding the bevels much like stock removal, while others forge nearly to final dimensions and grind very little...so there seems to be a wide sway of variations. I've always been curious as to what was faster. Can a skilled forger forge out the profile and bevels on a knife faster than an equally skilled stock remover with his bandsaw, KMG and a 50 grit belt?

I dunno...but im curious!
Click to expand...

I'd take a forger on in that bet anytime :)
the biggest 'but not not limited to' advantage of forging is moving steel,, you can get by with less of it..and put it where you can't with stock grinding
but it comes with a price of time. each have their own little things about it.
and if you can do both you have the best of two worlds to work with..it's no different than the right tool for the right job. two blades made either way IMO say 5160 will be just as good as each other unless you burn it out in the forge:) anything else done to it I believe to be the same if done the same to each. :)
 
I keep 2 water buckets at each grinder. One for the blade and the other for my thumbs. Boy do they get hot quick some times.
 
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