"Stockman" vs "Cattleman Clarification, Please?

afishhunter

afishhunter

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Is the difference between the "Stockman" and "Cattleman" ONLY the blade combination: Pen blade on the "Cattleman" vs Spey on the "Stockman"?
Is a "Cattleman" ALWAYS on a equal end/cigar frame, or can they be a Serpentine frame, like the "Stockman"?

Reason for confusion:
My Ka-Bar 1109. Serpentine frame, BUT it has a Pen blade, not a Spey.
View attachment 2500384
Is the 1109 a "Stockman" or because of the pen blade, a "Cattleman's" knife?

I don't want to misidentify it.

Yes. I am aware most "Cattlemen" have a Spear Point primary blade. However, I have seen a couple (in a equal end cigar frame) with a clip point blade.
 
I'll just say that there is a lot of "fluidity" when it comes to some definitions. (Even when using the old "Levine's" as my go-to source.)

I used to be more rigid in my thoughts on patterns. I've mellowed with age (some).
 
Levine's 4th Ed. notes that the Stockman is on a Serpentine frame. He also states that "at least 90% of cattle knives are equal-ended" -- "but, a few have been made in other shapes", which include: Premier (or Serpentine), Eureka (or Swell-Center Serpentine), Balloon, Jumbo, Canoe, and Surveyor.
 
JW225 said:
Levine's 4th Ed. notes that the Stockman is on a Serpentine frame. He also states that "at least 90% of cattle knives are equal-ended" -- "but, a few have been made in other shapes", which include: Premier (or Serpentine), Eureka (or Swell-Center Serpentine), Balloon, Jumbo, Canoe, and Surveyor.
Click to expand...
Exactly. (Fodder for food fights.) ☺️
 
JW225 said:
Levine's 4th Ed. notes that the Stockman is on a Serpentine frame. He also states that "at least 90% of cattle knives are equal-ended" -- "but, a few have been made in other shapes", which include: Premier (or Serpentine), Eureka (or Swell-Center Serpentine), Balloon, Jumbo, Canoe, and Surveyor.
Click to expand...
Just found out Ka-Bar called it a "Small Stockman"
a) If 4 inch closed is a "SMALL" ... how big were their "Medium"; "Large" and "Extra Large" stockman? (and what were the model numbers so I can try to find them?)
b) Since the manufacturer called it a "Stockman" (and a "small" one, at that!🙄) I suppose they MIGHT have named it right ... despite the "small" designator.🤔🙄
 
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The box says Rail Splitter

Schatt & Morgan Stag Railsplitter 7 .jpg

This one too is a Rail Splitter

S&M Rail Splitter Stockman 2 .jpg

but I've seen them referred to as Surveyor, Swell Center, and others mentioned above.

GEC calls these Stockman but to me they are closer to being a Cattle knife.

GEC Tidioute Chocolate Brown - Bumble Bee Stockman Comparison .jpg

As mentioned above, blade configuration isn't written in stone for either a cattle knife or stockman knife.
 
waynorth said:
Nice knives, Ed!! I agree - your Tidioutes are Cattle knives!!!
Interestingly, your Rail Splitters are referred to as "Surveyor's" knives, by Bernie Levine!!View attachment 2500543
Remingtom Surveyor!!
Click to expand...

Yep, you're right Charlie waynorth waynorth . I remember some years ago that Elliott Blues Blues and I had a lengthy back and forth about Surveyor/Rail Splitter when the BF knife came out in I think 2010.
 
Huh, I always thought the main difference, aside from the serpentine pattern, was that a "stock knife" or "cattle knife" had a spear point as the primary blade while "stockman" knives had some variety of clip point main.
 
Names get used by advertisers, collectors and general-public leading to a 'fluidity'...I assumed that Cattle knife was the older term and were EE patterns and generally larger knives, Stockman being serpentine and in various sizes and both styles having a variety of blades/implements. Then I looked at my CASE Humpback Stockman...not swell-centre exactly... EE yes but not the usual Cigar shape (the frame is almost the same size as the CASE/Bose Norfolk, both have fully sunk-joints) But CASE call it a Stockman so...Humpback Cattle Knife might sound odd.... ;) Yet there are of course breeds of Humpbacked Cattle .....Then I'm proposing Zebu Knife as the definition

1708291229307.jpeg


All these knives are Stocknives but not all are Cattle...or Zebu!

FmgNAb2.jpg
 
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I found this info from Levine to provide some interesting context for cattle vs. stock knives:

"As the name suggests, the cattle knife was designed for work on and around livestock. The type seems to have been introduced in about the 1870's."

"The premium stock pattern [a serpentine-shaped double-end pocketknife that ordinarily has two springs and three blades] was introduced about 1890 as a less bulky and more dressy version of the cattle knife. The stock knife was designed as a rancher's pattern, so it was at first marketed mainly in the West."
 
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