Stone Recomendations

[beaverballs]

I want to begin building a set of high quality, versitile stones with the capability to do everything from reprofileing to fine polishing. Right now, i'm considering placing an order for a set of DMT Dia-sharp continuous plates in EC, C, F, and EF. I was going to spring for the more versitile 8" length, but I'm tempted by the highly economical 6" double sided plates. I might try some carbon steel knives on these stones, but I'm primarily buying them to use with S30V folding knives. Sooner or later my plan is to expand my collection with the Shapton Glass stones which range up to an incredible 30,000 grit!

My first question is: will the 6" DMT plates be of adequate length and composition to maintain flatness with a collection of Shapton stones? Question 2: Which Shapton would best pick up where the DMT Extra Fine left off? (I've considered the DMT EEF, but I don't see the point of the added expense when I know I want to finish with ceramic anyway.) Question 3: Should I skip the DMT plates all together and invest in a full set of Shaptons beginning with the 220 grit glass stone? (I am attracted by the fact that Shaptons offer such a wide range of grits in a single type of stone, as I would like to avoid a hodge-podge of different stone types as much as possible.) Is there an advantage to having the diamond plates on the lower side of the grit range instead of all ceramic with a single leveling plate?

Ok, I think thats everything I had in mind for the time being. I'm open to all suggestions and eager to learn. Thanks.

 

[pwet]

for maintaining your shaptons you need a 8" continuous. dmt XXC and atoma 140 are the absolute best XC will do but it's waaay less convenient, it will stick more and be slower. shaptons are tough to grind also.

for dmt vs shaptons, i won't help you. it's more about preference than anything else. just 2 observations.

1 coarse waterstone wear kinda fast.
2 don't listen to people who say waterstone can't sharpen higher end vanadium steels. i raise a burr on a 500 grit beston waterstone faster than with a 600 dmt and get about the same scratch pattern. polishing is the same. a 5k naniwa SS will polish S90V faster and clearer than a DMT EEF.

 

[beaverballs]

Ok, so 8" plates are the way to go then. I guess I will buy a set of those for now, since they can fufill the role of lapping plate to any waterstones I buy in the future.

 

[beaverballs]

Also, good point about the fast wearing coarse waterstones. That was something I was wondering about.

Thanks

 

[Jason B.]

While I'll agree that a waterstone will work with high vanaidum steels I can't agree that it will work as fast or be as easy as a diamond hone. Below a finishing or polishing waterstone I see the difference as minimal between the stones but in waterstones 4k+ the speed greatly reduces compared to a 1.2k or 8k diamond. This comparison is specific to say S30V though, if you were to change up to say a carbon like 1095 the waterstones would greatly surpass the diamond in all areas.

If you went with the diamond stones you listed you could jump to a 4k waterstone with ease. Though that may seem like a nice start to moving into the higher polishing stones its a bit of a waste to use the diamonds that high. If you want diamonds and waterstones I'd suggest the DMT XXC, XC, and C, after the coarse diamond a 1k waterstone will easily bring the edge out of a grinding stage and move you into a sharpening stage.

Waterstones are not always easy to understand and comparing them to diamond hones doesn't make it any easier. It not as simple as following the grit numbers and what "sounds good" is usually far from what will work. I think we could all be in agreement though that very coarse would be best handled by diamond, and sharpening and finishing would be best with waterstones.

Waterstone "grit" can sound better than what it is or what it will do, not all seem to be graded the same and many have different ways in which the stone works. When it comes to knives you really don't need anything over 8k, it becomes increasingly difficult to use a stone of such a high grit and it has little benefit to cutting ability or usable sharpness. I love polished edges but my 10k synthetic stone is hardly used because of how fine it makes a edge and how difficult it is to use. On a similar note though I prefer my 10k natural waterstone, harder yet to use but on carbon steels its just awesome.

As for stone selection my personal choice would be the DMT XXC, XC, C, 1.2k bester, 6k arashiyama. I can't imagine much you couldn't do with those stones and the 6k (more like a 8k) produces a wicked edge. Also I'd probably start with the waterstones, they will be doing most of the sharpening and the diamonds will only be needed for serious edge repair or changing of profile.

Best of luck.

 

[beaverballs]

Knifenut, appreciate the input. I'm begining to understand that the diamonds have an important advantage in speed and flatness, especially in the coarsest of grits, while ceramics and waterstones are generally preferable for their feedback and fine grits. This makes a lot of sense. The way I now see it, if I follow your advice, I can enjoy the speed of diamonds for reprofiling with the refined edge and feedback offered by waterstones for 90% of basic sharpening. Best of both worlds I suppose.

I basically took your advice. I ordered an extra coarse and coarse DMT. (I'm hoping that I can get by without the EE Coarse for now) I also ordered the 1,000 and 4,000 grit Shapton Glass Stones.

My hope is that the DMT EC and C will handle rough work like reprofiling and lapping my stones, while the two Shaptons will remove the diamond's scratches and create a highly refined edge.

Does anybody feel like I am way off on these choices, or have any suggestions for future purchases to improve this collection?

 

[pwet]

I basically took your advice. I ordered an extra coarse and coarse DMT. (I'm hoping that I can get by without the EE Coarse for now)

you got the idea. this plus a strop will probably be more than you need, later you may want more ...

for reprofiling D8XC will be enough too, XXC is very very agressive, pretty extreme and rarely needed for sharpening. it's the ultimate lapping plate though but pricey if you only use it for that.


knifenut, you may be right for the speed. I am faster with waterstones than with diamonds but that's probably me, been using japanese waterstones forever and diamond plates are kinda new to me and i rarely use my bench plates to sharpen folders i use diafolds more. that may explain my results.

 

[Jason B.]

I think your off to a good start, one correction though. Fine stones or the finer and harder a stone gets the less feedback it has.

The XXC DMT is a beast of a stone and its probably better to wait on it until you get a bit of experience with the diamonds and how they work. The XXC is like a belt sander, it works fast but can also ruin the profile of a edge in a very short time.

Stone choice is personal and will change as your experience grows. Diamonds are"generic" and the feel changes very little with brands, waterstones on the other hand are very individual and work in many different ways. I went through several waterstones before settling on the ones I have now, they all worked but I wanted specific characteristics in how they worked and that's not always easy to find. It doesn't help that most info is generic too

 

[Jason B.]

pwet,
Probably, with my venture into waterstones I've found much conflicting information, many arguments about speed, affect, and most of all how the stone works. If we were talking king waterstones then things like speed could be more defined between the two but with stones like my arashiyama's with ceramic binders and green carbide abrasive the playing field is more level. The speed difference is still noticeable but not really that far apart and like you mentioned experience with the stone plays a major factor.