Stone Sharpening?

N

nowadays

Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
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I am new to this forum as of a week ago i think... but i have been reading on here for a while seems like a lot of knowledgeable people :D So i need help, only recently have i bought any knives over 20$ and now i would like to get them sharp, the biggest problem is i don't know what tools to buy for sharpening. I have been sharpening my Becker bk2 on a 3 stone set of Power Fist Sharpening Stones like this http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/Files-And-Sharpening/3-pc-Sharpening-Stone-Set/8112435.p, it hasn't been doing a horrible job but i have a Cold Steel Recon 1 on the way and a Spyderco Delica 4 on the way as well. I have been working on and researching good sharpening techniques ( haven't applied it very well though;) ). But my main problem is that there are so many different opinions and different options out there that i don't know which stone or stones to get and what grit to get them in. Also i don't know what strop or stropping compounds to get:confused: so i am pretty much asking if you were going to start from scratch with no sharpening equipment whatsoever; what stones, strop, compounds, and other accessories should i get? My budget is about 100$ and i would like to learn on stones then maybe later i would think about a sharpmaker or worksharp :thumbup: and hey if i can maybe work up to a mirror polished edge i wouldnt be one to complain:D!
 
Start with a Norton Coarse/Fine India stone. After you can get a good edge with that, try a strop if you want. It important to get good at the stone first. Good stropping won't fix bad stoning.
 
That stone will do up to S30V, so vg10 is no problem. If you want a faster cutting stone, go with the Crystolon. http://www.knifeworks.com/norton8pikecrystolon175thanniversaryedition.aspx#.U_Z_-UO8q24 It is made by the same company and knifecenter carries it too. Modern manmade stones are far to often undersold. I was chief sinner in this and have $150 worth of diamond stones that I don't use. And I don't need. Diamond is required for very, very few steels.

Don't be decieved by the current trend towards expensive stones. And a "need" for many, many grits. You should be able to get an edge straight off of this India stone that can cut a "C" is newspaper. Or you could say you can make a "U" turn in the cut. I am not trying to talk down to you but I am telling you what I wish someone had told me when I started sharpening.
 
As a professional that has used nearly every stone on the market I would recommend Shapton pro waterstones. They will blow away the other recommendations and they are some of the stones I use daily for sharpening a wide range of cutlery.

If I were to start over they are the stones I would start with.
 
Listen to Squashfan, his advise is sound if you just need the knife pretty sharp. Free hand sharpening is a nice skill to have.
check out a few videos on how to do it. I like DMT's sharpening demo video myself.
later on, when you encounter steels that are very wear resistant, you may want to check out the diamond sharpeners. They are time savers.
If you can't take the time to learn free hand sharpening, check out guided clamp sharpening system. I would just get the DMT's aligner system and be done with it.
 
If you are on a budget, I'd get a large Norton India Stone (about $20) [coarse/fine]. I use DMT stuff a good bit too. I like the large DMT stones, but they are expensive. That didn't stop me of course. The water stones are good also. Used one for years on some of my carbon steel slippies.
 
The fine side of the India combo stone will give you an edge that will shave your arm and split a beard hair held between your fingers. I used mine for my Spyderco Delica with no trouble.
 
You might also try Congress Tools. They are machinists polishing stones, and you can get a variety of grits for fairly low cost. Start with say 60 or 80 grit and ~double grits for each step. 80, 150, 320, 600, 1200, or something like that. Many people like a 300 to 400 grit finish for slicing in every day tasks. This is the approximate grit of the Norton Fine India.
 
me2 said:
Start with a Norton Coarse/Fine India stone. After you can get a good edge with that, try a strop if you want. It important to get good at the stone first. Good stropping won't fix bad stoning.
Click to expand...
I so agree with this. As this edge gets dull I've started stropping (alone) it to bring it back. Which takes around 200 strokes to bring it back to a nice edge. But it gives longer life to a kitchen knife. DM
 
Squashfan said:
That stone will do up to S30V, so vg10 is no problem. If you want a faster cutting stone, go with the Crystolon. http://www.knifeworks.com/norton8pikecrystolon175thanniversaryedition.aspx#.U_Z_-UO8q24 It is made by the same company and knifecenter carries it too. Modern manmade stones are far to often undersold. I was chief sinner in this and have $150 worth of diamond stones that I don't use. And I don't need. Diamond is required for very, very few steels.
Don't be decieved by the current trend towards expensive stones. And a "need" for many, many grits. You should be able to get an edge straight off of this India stone that can cut a "C" is newspaper. Or you could say you can make a "U" turn in the cut. I am not trying to talk down to you but I am telling you what I wish someone had told me when I started sharpening.
Click to expand...
I'm soooo glad you said this... Recently I applied diamond slurry to my Norton India stone. NOT because it had difficultly cutting S30V or S60V but to see if it made any difference in the edge obtained. Plus, so some OCD would have to leave this topic alone. I haven't noticed it making a difference.
Yes, the edge coming off this stone can cut paper like that and over come wrinkles. Well, said. DM
 
Thank you all for the replies i have some options to look at now. I will probably post a video on how sharp i can get my knives:thumbup: and i have a few more questions ;) what should i use on the norton india stones if i get one of them, should i use water, sharpening oil, nothing at all, or some other solution of liquids? And as for final grit As me2 said "The fine side of the India combo stone will give you an edge that will shave your arm and split a beard hair held between your fingers. I used mine for my Spyderco Delica with no trouble." Should i go finer if i have the extra time and money like a ceramic stone or even a strop?
 
I used mine dry. You can go finer if you have the time. I find even my chopping knives are ok with a medium grit edge (1000 grit water stone right now). You may find more polish helps on choppers. I am not a fan of stropping in general, though I do use some very fine abrasive films on aluminum backing sometimes. The Spyderco fine white ceramics are as high as I usually go, so you can try that. The individual white Sharpmaker triangles are about $12, and work fine free hand. Only use it for finishing the edge. It loads fast and can be tough to clean.
 
I haven't tried tthe King 6000. The 1000 is what I use. I have a 4000 grit King. It has been a love hate relationship. It is MUCH softer than the Norton India. That has given me fits. Using edge leading sharpening strokes takes a lot of care not to dig into the stone.
 
Nowadays, what you buy for sharpening is up to you. But if you don't understand freehand basics a more expensive stone won't help you. Ceramics are very, very touchy to me. I wouldn't recommend them to a beginner.
 
Now, I'm wondering if another stone would be best for you. Perhaps try some 400 grit slurry applied to a hardwood board and strop on this. See if this is the edge you desire. One doesn't need more stones. You need the practical knowledge and skill of sharpening to produce a good edge. Rather than loading up with more equipment. Just at what most here are recommending will take some time to explore and reach a level of competence. Before moving on. DM
 
You basically want a coarse, medium, and fine surface. How coarse and how fine depend on what you're doing, but in general it helps to think of three steps to sharpening:
Coarse is for repairing and reshaping
Medium is for refining down to a user's edge and as a bridge to a finer edge
Fine is for chopping, carving, shaving

The King 1k/6k are good stones, as is the 4k. They do not play well with all steels though and do require a learning curve in excess of most benchstones. Another option is to use a Norton Crystalon stone (silicon carbide) instead of or in addition to the India stone. Used with some mineral oil, the mud that forms on the surface of the fine silicon carbide stone can be reclaimed on a sheet of paper or hard leather and used as a stropping compound.

An even finer edge intended for use with larger choppers can be made with some fine polishing compound on a sheet of paper wrapped around either combination stone. The edge will be fine polished and very good for chopping, though this method does tend to eliminate any catchy irregularities along the edge that come in handy for EDU purposes. As a simple strategy, this is pretty effective - a combination stone and a reasonably fine compound (Flexcut Gold comes to mind). All that's needed after is some oil, a few sheets of paper, and a rag.

As David Martin says, the compound can be used with a few drops of oil on a hardwood board and this method makes a strong performing fine edge that still has plenty of bite. Though this method is somewhat challenging, it allows a lot of flexibility to use different materials and can make a frightfully sharp edge with no further action needed.

There are plenty of ways to get a good edge, just have to find out what's the best fit for your usage and philosophy. I frequently recommend starting out with a combination silicon carbide stone as this gives you a coarse and medium grit surface to work with. Per above, many materials can be applied to a sheet of paper and wrapped around the same stone for further refinement. Used with oil the surface will never plug or glaze, can handle any steel and do so very quickly, provides good tactile feedback, and it does a very good job of removing burrs with less fuss than some other abrasive types.

For a finer edge there are many options, but gaining skill freehand is done at the coarse and medium levels. Master these and the finishing steps are a lot easier.
 
Thanks for the reply i have pretty good skills on the stones i have now and am learning as i go along but i am trying to upgrade my sharpening equipment, i can get a pretty sharp edge on my bk2 but i would like to get a better edge onto it and i have been looking for ways to do it and i was told that i should get a finer set of stones. Should i not get a fine stone then because it could get damaged or just because the compound can be added to many other materials and sort of emulate the results acheived by the finer stone?
 
I started with Arkies, India combo, and the crystolon medium. Prices were all good and at first the products looked good.
None were flat and it took me a while to see that a little out of flat makes a difference, a big difference. Then after
ruining a practice knife, which is just that and I know I'm not the first to turn one into a shank, I worked real hard
to make all the stones flat...bought sand paper down to 60 grit, called customer service for advice of how to, and so on.
Today, I returned them all. If nothing else, I learned about technique and came to appreciate many of the factors that
go into sharpening. Still, not a positive experience. Having said that, I like the concept about using more traditional
and less expensive approaches. Since, I do love the J.Knives. The thought of putting one on an India coarse stone
makes me cringe. Not only was this side out of flat, both edges were extra extra coarse. Made in America can be
shameful. To the vendor's credit, a full refund including shipping back. I wish that I had done that part sooner.
If I had a ton of money, natural stones would be a lot fun to explore.

Jason B...curious if you would take a peek at the thread I posted a little while ago.
 
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