Stone vs Belt Sharpening: Your Experience?

[BenchCo Spydermade]

A few months ago I invested in a work sharp for more intensive sharpening/ reprofiling of my blades. Previous to that I used a sharpmaker for years. I was very happy with the work sharp as it allowed me to do what I got it for: Sharpening knives that were too damaged for me to get sharp again on the sharpmaker(at least not without 1,000,000+ strokes). I love using the work sharp, but have noticed a few things.

One, the belts wear out eventually, the finer grits particularly quickly, the courser ones lasting pretty well IMO. Two, that while able to being able to do cool stuff like a mirror polish that makes the bevel look great, my knives were not getting screaming sharp. I worried that I must have burnt out the steel and that was why I couldn't get the edge back that I wanted, but I was so careful l couldn't believe that was what was happening.

I then went back to my sharpmaker with my beautifully polished, but relatively dull blades. I used the 40degree inclusive on the sharpmaker stones, while on the work sharp I had made an only slightly convex edge(using very Iight pressure to profile the bevel as to keep it relatively flat)that was probably between 30-35 degrees inclusive.

In no time my blades were as sharp or sharper than I've ever had them!

So why can't I get them that sharp just using the work sharp? I think maybe the vibrations from the machine and belt movement don't facilitate the precision needed to make a wicked sharp edge and the stones on the sharpmaker allow as much precision as the operator is steady.

But then I think, I've gotten some factory knives with pretty sharp edges, and I doubt the people sharpening at factories for the bigger brands are using stones, so maybe I'm wrong, and my technique using the work sharp still needs improvement.

I figured I'd come here and ask what some of you more experienced sharpeners think. So, what do YOU think? Stones better for a fine apex or belts are just as good and I need more practice using work sharp?

 

[foxhunter2]

Get a real belt sander a Kalamazoo or a better one. WS is a toy compare to a good belt sander.

Rubbing the knife on a stone is stone age technology, yes you can cut a tree down with a ax but
it's much better with a chainsaw Just one man opinion

 

[Jason B.]

Get a real belt sander a Kalamazoo or a better one. WS is a toy compare to a good belt sander.

Rubbing the knife on a stone is stone age technology, yes you can cut a tree down with a ax but
it's much better with a chainsaw Just one man opinion

I agree with the first part, the WS is a toy sharpener that yields OK results.

On the second part I disagree, some of the best sharpening stones are available today because of our current technology levels. That and, stones produce a more precise edge and removes far less metal than powered methods so the useful life of a blade will be much longer with hand sharpening.

 

[bgentry]

I haven't used the original WorkSharp, only the WorkSharp Ken Onion edition. I've done a fair number of blades on mine. Something like 125 or so. I'm using the stiff precision belts now and switched over around the 75 or 80 blade mark. So I've done quite a few on both sets of belts and both seem to cut very well for me. Counter to your experience, I've found that the coarse belts wear the fastest. But that's probably because I spend 75 to 80% of my time on the coarse belts. Just like when using stones.

I've been using a belt cleaner since day one, and use it every sharpening or maybe 2 or 3 sharpenings on the more fine belts. While they don't get entirely clean (especially the white belts), the cleaner does remove a lot of metal from them and seems to keep them going for me. I can tell a bit of a difference on the stiff X200 and stiff X100, but they still cut pretty well. I bought my cleaner at Harbor Freight for around $7. It's WAY worth it and might renew your belts a bit.

For sharpness, I've had extremely good results with the WSKO. Clean phonebook paper slicing is my standard at whatever grit level I stop at. The higher I got, the better push cuts become and the better they shave arm (or leg) hair. With the purple "6000" belt, I can pop hairs with most blades and I mean *pop*! It's somewhat useless edge for soft common steels, but it's fun every once in a while.

However, it takes some practice and technique to deburr a blade on the WSKO. I always do it on the lowest speed possible. It's also important to deburr after you do the big portion of your grinding on a coarse belt. I also use a combination of techniques to deburr. I use a cork to strip some of the burr off, as well as trying to have a light touch on the belt in the last phases as I go from one side to the other, trying very hard not to recreate the burr on the other side, while taking it off of the side I'm working on.

All of this deburring is really exactly light what you do by hand; it's just exaggerated by using a moving belt. The exact mechanics you use are different, but the ideas are the same.

In that vein, I'll offer you this advice, which applies equally well to using stones: Try to get as clean an edge as you possibly can at each belt. Fully deburr and test sharpness after each belt. If you can get a phonbook slicing edge from the 80 (or P120) belt, you're on your way to a fantastic edge. Each belt should make the push cutting better (better shaving) and the phonebook paper slicing should get quieter and quieter. If you do this for every belt, you should end up with an impressive edge when you're done. This is mostly a learning technique, as it's time consuming. But the lessons you learn while doing it are very valuable IMHO.

Brian.

 

[Bighaze51]

I've been using my HF belt sander for some sharpening as week. My belt at the moment is a 400 grit but I just finish off like you have. The sharpmaker to finish off a nice microbevel and you go from butter knife to screaming sharp in just a few minutes. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my waterstones. But the belt sander make reprofiling a breeze

 

[buckman110]

Disadvantage to the belt, one good slip and you can almost ruin a blade. But steady hands yield god results. I to disagree with "rubbing a stone is outdated" my stones produce crazy edges, so dang smooth that the object being cut almost runs from the edge. Also. ReProfiling is a breeze if you use the right stone or plate according to your steel grade. Once set and hair popping sharp move up to higher grit stones.

Hand hoaning seems more satisfying to me.

 

[mainaman]

I use stones and I also have Kalamazoo. If you want zero edge it is easier to do with belt. my 2 cents anyway

 

[HeavyHanded]

Get a real belt sander a Kalamazoo or a better one. WS is a toy compare to a good belt sander.

Rubbing the knife on a stone is stone age technology, yes you can cut a tree down with a ax but
it's much better with a chainsaw Just one man opinion

I agree with the first part, the WS is a toy sharpener that yields OK results.

On the second part I disagree, some of the best sharpening stones are available today because of our current technology levels. That and, stones produce a more precise edge and removes far less metal than powered methods so the useful life of a blade will be much longer with hand sharpening.

I sharpen my chainsaw blades by hand...

 

[foxhunter2]

I would like to see a competition sharpening with a washboard a stone and belt sharpener

 

[HeavyHanded]

I would like to see a competition sharpening with a washboard a stone and belt sharpener

To start, you'd have to define the edge finish and just how closely the tool will be inspected. For touch-ups, the Washboard is tough to beat. For a full job, you'd have to kiss the sheets of wet/dry good-bye so you could lean on it more - even then a stone will be faster for setting the bevel and refining to a medium edge, at least on most steel. If there is no outlet, either will be way faster than a driven belt, and how much time is lost changing the belts out. Another thing I noticed when I was using a belt sander - my quality control time went way up per finished piece due to some steels not cleanly deburring off of a trailing pass. While initial grind time is very rapid, much of this can be lost to the finish work if one expects the edge to be scrutinized - a notable amount of sharpening time isn't consumed with actual work. Most factory edges are good, few are great, and many come uneven and with residual burring.

Is a great way to go for doing initial grind work on worn edges to be finished by hand, or if pounding through a pile of cutlery. With a lot of know-how and a lot of practice, one can get very strong results. If only doing one or two pieces I cannot imagine any advantage. Similar to the chain saw analogy - two individuals awake to find a limb down in their yard. In the time it takes to maybe mix gas, grab hearing protection, start the saw, the other person using a sharp single bit axe would have it limbed and maybe have it bucked as well. Also no need to empty the saw when done, pull the plug so the thing starts next time, and don't forget the bar oil or you'll ruin the blade and maybe the bar with it. If you have lot of work to do, its invaluable, and if its your job, is a no brainer - you'll be using and maintaining it ongoing so the issues with it being used and allowed to sit do not apply. Have to note - I know a couple of landscapers and they do a lot of climbing work with a Falco or similar hand saw anyway.

In any event, the OP, myself, and dare I speak for Jason in this respect - weren't talking about speed, but quality of finished edge. And if one works at speed, one can get pretty darn fast as long as technique and tools etc are already solid.

 

[Allen R.]

I have both and for broken tips or really damaged blades I mean serious chips etc. Nothing beats a sander. For me though when I get a knife first thing I do is take that factory edge off, I like edges without grind lines aka mirror polished. Now once the knife has been mirror polished buy hand I may hit it on a worn belt if I'm in a hurry just to strop it back, but as long as I have the time , or I don't want a purpose convex edge I'm free handing. Watch Jason B. On YouTube if you have the skills the the skies the limit as to level of sharpeners based on freehand. A good friend of mine swears by power equipment sharpening and his edges are sharp, but who knows what the heat is doing to his edge, I know my knife will last longer as I'm not grinding off huge amounts of metal every sharpening.

 

[Ernie1980]

I use the work sharp for quickly putting a reasonable edge on my knives, especially on the kitchen and yard knives. I tend to use stones (water or diamond) on my pocket knives because it yields a sharper edge. The hardest part of using the WS is keeping the knife steady and the angle the same through all the grits. I don't like the edge guide and freehand it because I only run the belts away from the edge to avoid nicking them.