Stones for between dmt xxc and spyderco uf?

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wonewin78

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Mar 19, 2012
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What's up guys. Finally decided to embark on the long and interesting road of free hand sharpening. I have a small dmt coarse stone and a sharpmaker with ultrafine roads that i used to freehand and got pretty decent results, and I wanted to buy a couple stones to make a "system". I'm going to sell the sharpmaker and the small dmt stone, so I'm basically starting from scratch.

I'm thinking of buying a xxc dmt stone for reprofiling. I would really like to end before the strop with the uf spyderco because i love the edge it produces. However i don't know what stones I should get for the middle process. I've done lots of research, and it's a wide array of options- some say dmt xxc, ef, and spyderco uf is enough, while some say it won't get the scratches out, etc. I'd prefer dmt stones, and price isn't that big of an obligation as I'm more of a buy it once, use it a long time kind of guy.


Long story short. What dmt stone(s), or just any stone(s) would you recommend for in between the dmt xxc and spyderco ultrafine for a "wholesome" freehand sharpening system?

Thanks a lot guys.
 
You mentioned you like the edge produced by the Spyderco UF. What are you using prior to that hone? Is it just the Sharpmaker's Med/Fine rods(?), or is there anything else in the sequence? The good result you get from the Spyderco UF depends at least somewhat on the sequence used prior to that hone.

If you're looking to eliminate all visible (by naked eye) scratches and pursue mirrored bevels, you'll need a lot of 'in between' hones after your DMT XXC; the gaps in grit will need to be as narrow as possible, to ensure that all coarse scratches from each step are completely replaced by the finer scratch pattern in following steps.

For good 'user' edges (mirrored bevels aside), the Coarse (blue/325 Mesh/45µ), Fine (red/600 Mesh/25µ) and EF (green/1200 Mesh/9µ) DMT hones do very well for that. I'd say the Coarse and Fine are the most versatile overall. For user edges, any refinement you should need or want beyond those could be handled with your existing Spyderco SM hones (med/fine/uf).


David
 
If I were to start over I would get a Atoma 400, a Shapton Pro 1k and a Shapton Pro 5k. The 1k and 5k will handle most routine sharpening while the Atoma will handle the bevel setting and stone flattening.

The XXC is a good grinding and lapping plate but too coarse for practical use, and while I like the spyderco ceramics they have drawbacks of being slow and needing special cleaners for constant cleaning. They also don't have feedback and tend to produce more burr than other stones.
 
That xxc is pretty coarse. I like using the DMT red, green, and beige. Throw in a Spyderco brown, and you're all set. I would use the xxc as little as possible, the DMT red should take care of anything that's not damaged.
 
Obsessed w/ edges- yup I use the dmt coarse, spyderco medium, fine, and ultrafine. Dang, all the diamond stones and the spyderco stones for refinement seem like a huge process haha, but at the same time I know cutting corners isn't optimal.

Jason- would the 3 stones be enough for a relative complete kit? Is the Atoma 400 suitable for heavy reprofiling? Also, would I be able to get a mirror polish edge if I hit it with loaded strops after the three stones you mentioned? Please excuse all my questions :)

Sodak- Yup, guess I can't cut any corners. Looks like I'll have to do a full kit of diamond stones for and edge that's refined.

The reason why I wanted to start with a xxc was because I like to reprofile my edges, and it would be the fastest way for me to set the new bevel. Even with the coarse stone when reprofiling I have a relatively hard time holding my angle consitently enough for a "clean" reprofile. Once the new edge is set however the rest was fine actually. Not bad for a beginner imo.
 
Yes, the 400 is plenty fast. The Atoma have a better sharpening feel too so some of your consistency issues would beneifit from this.

The 5k pro leaves a nice finish but not completely mirror, a little stropping with compound could easily make it highly polished but the edge from the 5k does not need it. It is very sharp straight from the stone.
 
Wonwin78 I was you a couple of years ago here. I started many threads and asked the same questions of how to Achieve a true perfect mirror edge. I got great advice here especially from Jason and it took a while and tons of practice to get the results I wanted. I finally settled upon a good setup that works great pretty much all the time. I use DMT Coarse to reprofile. Then fine and extra fine to remove the coarse scratch pattern and refine the edge. Then polish with Spyderco medium, fine and ultra fine stones. If you take the time to remove all the previous stones scraches at this point you should have a very mirrored edge. But to take it all the way I use DMT diamond paste on leather at 6,3 and 1 micron. It sounds like a lot but once you get the hang of it it's not to bad. You spend most of the time with the coarse DMT to get the bevels just right the rest of the stones is just refining the scratch pattern. And with time and practice with this setup you can get results like this.

 
Thanks for all the input guys. I really appreciate it. Looks like there are loads of different options, hmmm. I'll probably do the Atoma 400, Shapton 1k and 5k that Jason suggested. Really want to try out different options apart from the diamond and sharpmaker stones I'm used to. Only downside I see is that the Shapton stones will eventually wear out. (Really slowly though based on what I'm reading) But yeah. I'll see from there if I need any additions or what not. Maybe the 8k to take it to that extra level, or even a coarser stone. Who knows...
 
I wouldn't worry about them wearing out, I put a few lifetimes of use into a stone in a few months and these stones have hardly worn. Most fine stone are slow wearing anyways and its the 1k and down that get replaced more often, the Shapton pro 1k is much harder and even in my use has hardly worn. These are a far cry from the King stones most are accustom too.

I wouldn't worry about going past 5k for now, it's more than fine enough and you will need to learn how to use them to the fullest before moving to finer stones.
 
That's good to hear! Yeah, I really want to focus on technique and getting it down completely before getting greedier with the stones :)

More questions... (sigh) Would the stones be able to handle harder steels such as S90v, ZDP 189, etc? I imagine the Atoma would have no problem, but the Shaptons? And based on what I'm reading, there's not a huge difference between the Shapton pro and glass stones apart from the obvious. (glass is mounted on glass, thinner) Is this true?

Thanks so much. Sorry for the buttload of questions, haha.
 
The 1k to 5k jump will be too much for some but it's not about the hardness as much as it is the wear resistance. ZDP is a hard steel but it's chromium carbides are only about as hard as the steel itself so most any stone including natural stones will sharpen it. S90V is on the opposite side of the spectrum containing vanadium and lots of it, 9% Vanadium to be exact. This high percentage causes the formation of vanadium carbides which are very hard around 80 rockwell and this is the real trouble maker.

Now, I have sharpened my S90V Spyderco military on my Shapton 1k and 5k, and it did okay but you could tell it was struggling to do so, mainly the large gap to the 5k and the 5k itself. It's pushing the limits of the finishing stone. The Shapton Glass stones are more suited to high alloy steels so if these are the steels you plan on sharpening they would be the better choice.

That said, I use diamond stones on such extreme alloy steels and finish with the DMT 8000 mesh, which is like a 3-4k waterstone. I finish to this level because it fits my cutting style, WITH THIS STEEL (S90V) the majority of users would prefer a much coarser edge such as a Coarse DMT. The coarse DMT and a strop with 1 micron diamond compound makes for a scary sharp edge.
 
I see. I won't exclusively be sharpening only harder steels, but really want that option available. Since the Shapton glass doesn't have a 5k, I guess I'll replace it with a 4k or 6k. Would 4k be more optimal it's less of a jump?

Thanks.
 
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