Stop the hamon hate

Sam Salvati

Sam Salvati

Joined
Aug 6, 2007
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It is inferior in a strict sense of the materials to a fully hardened and tempered blade, we all know that. But in all honesty I imagine that no one would ever push a knife to the limit where they would ever notice a difference unless they are doing things a knife shouldn't IE a pry bar. I for one will accept it as what it is, beautiful when done correctly.

:D
 
Nice. Thanks, Sam. And, a differentially hardened knife can still be VERY tough.

You're right. A nice hamon is a thing of frickin' beauty.

Damascus is no longer thought to be metallurgically any better than monosteel - indeed, it may be slightly to fairly inferior in many cases.
It doesn't seem that Damascus is suffering in popularity though - it can be beautiful too.
 
I apologize if it has seemed that I am a "hater" of hamons or damascus, or edge-quenching for that matter. While neither trips my trigger for its own sake, I am certain that many modern smiths who employ these techniques/materials are making some of the finest knives the world has ever seen, and I salute them. And there is certainly no question in my mind that they are beautiful as well.

I have never, and will never be "against" any technique, style or maker that strives for excellence. We live in the golden age of knifemaking, with resources undreamt-of by our forefatherss, and there are many ways to skin a cat.
 
I am in awe of the hamon some people get...It is art in HT...And it is NOT easy....I am a HUGE fan of hamon.
 
Hamon: Hah mohn
I hope everyone remembers phonics ;)

Personally, a hamon on a blade lesss than 10" is "gingerbread" (an embelishment)
Done well they're an example of the makers skill at heat treating and blade finishing.
 
i like it for the wispyness of the "line" that great makers make and hate the flat line (read dead) of soem makers that do it jsut to say its the way they do it
hell edge quenching is easy but getting a hanson or fogg like look is art
 
If PROPERLY done a blade with a hamon gives up NOTHING to a fully hardened blade. The key is getting enough of the blade hardened, my general rule of thumb is 1/2 up the blade. I have done testing and by hand you CAN NOT get a properly h/t blade with hamon to take a set. Not only have I tried this (at 180 lbs.) but I watched Jimmy Fikes (at 250 pounds) do the same bend test with the same results.

Now with this said, I see alot of people applying hamons that only have a narrow band of hardened steel with the hamon dipping down dangerously close to the cutting edge, and generally not having enough "hard" steel for a good tough, serviceable knife in my opinion.

To those that dont want to do hamons, simply dont do them, but to say they are "inferior" to any other h/t method is a bit untrue.

6212366069_d581ce0e4f_z.jpg
 
Holy Bat Chit Matt that is one of the greatest hamons I have seen! At first sight crazy Arabic writing came to mind. How can you hate a good Hamon?
 
well, if you do most of the blade, ofcourse.
"properly" as you put it is open to interpretation. Going for a traditional looking hamon, they usually come up around 1/3 from the edge.
 
butcher_block said:
i like it for the wispyness of the "line" that great makers make and hate the flat line (read dead) of soem makers that do it jsut to say its the way they do it
hell edge quenching is easy but getting a hanson or fogg like look is art
Click to expand...

alot of people like a very dynamic hamon (so do I) but depending on how well one is polished can bring out "activity" in a suguba (straight) hamon. I asked "what makes an attractive hamon" a number of years ago- I'll not make mistake again, lol
 
I meant inferior only in the meterials sense that, there is pearlite mixed with the martensite.
 
SShepherd said:
well, if you do most of the blade, ofcourse.
"properly" as you put it is open to interpretation. Going for a traditional looking hamon, they usually come up around 1/3 from the edge.
Click to expand...

Yeah, im not trying to make "traditional" looking hamons, Im basically using the clay as a control method, and the "hamon" itself is secondary to me. Do I like the looks, sure, but thats not my main concern.
 
RMLamey said:
Yeah, im not trying to make "traditional" looking hamons, Im basically using the clay as a control method, and the "hamon" itself is secondary to me. Do I like the looks, sure, but thats not my main concern.
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That is a great outlook Matt! And i will say that the hamon above is outstanding, like flames! Great job. I do appreciate the toughness imparted by a properly differentially heat treated blade.
 
RMLamey said:
If PROPERLY done a blade with a hamon gives up NOTHING to a fully hardened blade. The key is getting enough of the blade hardened, my general rule of thumb is 1/2 up the blade. I have done testing and by hand you CAN NOT get a properly h/t blade with hamon to take a set. Not only have I tried this (at 180 lbs.) but I watched Jimmy Fikes (at 250 pounds) do the same bend test with the same results.

Now with this said, I see alot of people applying hamons that only have a narrow band of hardened steel with the hamon dipping down dangerously close to the cutting edge, and generally not having enough "hard" steel for a good tough, serviceable knife in my opinion.

To those that dont want to do hamons, simply dont do them, but to say they are "inferior" to any other h/t method is a bit untrue.

QUOTE]

how far was it bent? I'm thinking that "by hand" there would be no difference from a blade that's 80% hardened and one that's 99% ( considering your heat treating is spot on ) I've said before that the shorter a blade becomes the more a hamon becomes more of an embelishment (IMO)
Click to expand...
 
All right, y'all have me confused now.

Every time I've seen one of you chasing a hamon it was always about how wavy or wispy the hamon was. When did performance characteristics of the ensuing blade ever matter? As far as I could see the objective was always aesthetic.
 
Some may do it purely for cosmetics, thats fine, but for me I like the control I get using clay during h/t as earlier stated.

Shepard, I "didnt" measure the actual degree of bend as we were just messing around in the shop informally. My best guess would be about 30 degrees or so, which is about as far as either of us could go. The point to the test was that even under harsh use you are not going to bend a substantial blade, with 1/2 up hamon by hand.

Look im not wanting to argue with anyone here, and Im not here to belabor the issue. If anyone wants to do some hands on testing my shop is open, just call a day in advance, we can cut, bend, test to your hearts content.
 
Matt, I am hoping to make it out to the next Batson's hammer in, Charlie was kind enough to offer me a place to crash...Maybe then we can bend a few test pieces? I think it would be great fun to do. I don't think Shep was trying to argue with you, sounded more like a curiosity than anything...that's how i perceive it anyway?
 
Mike, we can meet at Charlies and use his shop. Sometimes in reading a post its hard to perceive how the question is posed, maybe I didnt have enough coffee this morning! Im responding more to the general topic of this thread "stop the hamon hate". No better way then to open up the shop.
 
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