Stopping Knives Get an Oxide Coating

Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
3
Sorry for the newbie question.

I have so far made one knife which I did not heat treat or temper. It was made out of A piece of a circular saw blade so it is 01 steel. I didn't heat treat it because I remembered reading somewhere that it said not the heat treat your first knife you ever make. It is about 105mm (bit more then 4 inches)
KnifeIMade.jpg
Rough Eh?

Anyways. I only had a hacksaw to cut that out so it was hell to say the least.
Now I am starting a new knife made out of a horseshoe rasp and I don't want it to go dark and bad after I go to all the effort of cleaning it up nicely. (If it helps I do not plan to give it a mirror finish)

Onto my questions

1. How do you stop knives from getting an oxide coating?
2. Does the horseshoe rasp need to be heat-treated and tempered again?

Thanks for your help in advance!
 
First, welcome to the forums.

Second, you need to get some books and read them. There is a ton of information available on this site and in the stickies at the top. Also www.knifehow.com has a lot of info. That said, there is no replacement for sitting down and reading a couple of books on the subject before you start a project like a knife. Everything you read on the Internet is not necessarily good information. That is why this site is so good. The peer review of many experts gives a good chance of accurate information. Even then some bad advice slips through. Also, knife folk lore and knife urban legends will exist forever. No attempt by experts will make them go away. You will read about "Edge Packing", "Mystery quench mixes that will make 1030 super hard", and that all saw blades are L-6, car springs are 5160,etc. It would be nice if the world was so simple, but it is not.

I don't know where you got your info, but a circular saw blade is most likely NOT O-1. It may be a lot of things, most of which don't make good knives. It was a learning piece, so that is OK. The thing about not heat treating your first knife is to not do it yourself, have it done by someone who knows how. Preferably with them showing you how it is done.

As to the farriers rasp knife. Many modern hoof rasps are just case hardened steel and not good for knives. The ones that are usable will have to be annealed and shaped (grinding or forging) and the heat treated to harden and temper them. You will do yourself a BIG favor to buy a $20 piece of steel (O-1, 1080,5160) and work with a known material. Files, rasps, car springs, saw blades, etc. ,MAY make a good knife, but then again they MAY NOT !! After you have made a hundred or so knives you will know the difference, but for now you don't, so stick with known steels. Get a couple of knife supple catalogs, there is a lot of info as well as supplies in them.

The oxide on your blade may be from a lot of things you did in making it, but a knife should not change color after it is made unless it is exposed to some chemical (water, acid in food, blood,etc.) My guess is that it is just the rust and oxidation forming on a steel that is not high carbon. The blades of circular saws are usually a low carbon steel with lots of alloy elements to make them tough. Cheaper blades are often plated with a chrome coating to prevent rusting. The tips of the teeth are usually carbide, or impulse hardened.

You will learn more on finishing blades when you study up on the subject. There are many ways to color a blade and control oxide and rust. The steel selection is an important part of the process.

I suggest you get a copy of "The $50 Knife Shop",by Wayne Goddard. It is a great starter book for those on a budget.

My final comments are ones I address to most new members of this forum....
FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE
We don't know where you live or who you are without it.
You could be my neighbor or you could be in South Africa...We don't know.
You could be a chemical engineer or a 8th grade student....We don't know.
The info will help a lot in your getting help and good advise.

For instance. When several members joined this forum and were interested in getting started, They was helped by having books, steel, tools, etc. sent to them by other members who were interested in helping them learn. If you are not giving us anything to work with, you are less likely to get more than a simple answer.

There are many posters on this forum, some give advise based on thousands of knives completed. Others give advise on the knife they PLAN on making ,or the two or three they have made. You will soon be able to tell these apart, but in the beginning, listen to the general masses before jumping off with just one persons advise. (The number of posts is NOT a sure sigh of a good source)

Again - Welcome - Stacy
 
All I know about rust and the common high carbon steels is that there are some good oils out there, keep a light coat of one on your knife. I used to commercial fish in Alaska and always heard that dogfish oil would stop steel from rusting once applied, but I never saw any dogfish oil on a boat and I did see pretty of rusted steel. :rolleyes: Blueing the knife will help as the blueing is actually a thin layer of "rust" and as that steel has been oxidized it is more difficult to rust.

On the rasp. You will either need to anneal it to soften it up or slowly go thru a lot of hacksaw blades to cut it up. If you can cut it with a hacksaw blade it is probly not a suitable steel (the fact that you cut up the circle saw blade with a hack saw tells me it wasn't very hard) That means you will need to reharden it. To anneal it you need a heat source hot enough to get it to about 1600f. This is a bright a red and non magnetic. Let it cool for at least 8 hours buried some kitty litter. Then it will be soft and easy to cut, drill, file and sand. Then when it is close to its final shape you will neat to harden and temper it. This means you need to get it back to about 1550 and non magnetic. Try to keep it that hot for about 10 minutes. Try not to get it hotter than that. Then quench it in a pan full of transmission fluid. I know some will howl about me telling you to use the ATF but, you have an unknown steel are just experimenting and trying to figure stuff out. ATF won't do the very best job, but it should get your steel hardened fairly well. The real old timers would have loved to have ATF. If you decide you want to do this and make really great knives get some known steel and some quality quench oil. THAT IS THE WAY TO GET CONSISTANT QUALITY BLADES. When the knife has been in the oil for about 7 or 8 seconds and quit smoking but is still a bit hot put it in your kitchen oven at about 400f and leave it for a couple hours then cool it all the way off and then stick it back in the oven for another 2 hours. Then finish to suit.

Need a heat source to get you to 1600. Seach the threads for forge making instructions. There are plenty of simple, easy, cheap to built small forge plans. I would be willing to donate a bit of kaowool to you if you are serious about this.

Edit. I see someone posted while I was typing. All that advice is very true also.
 
Thanks for the advice!

I feel pretty stupid now, lol. I know I read somewhere that circular saw blades were 01. I guess I read it wrong or they were wrong. Ohh well. I think I will just stop being lazy and buy some good steel. The only reason I was using those kinds of steel was because I was trying to get away with just using stuff I had already.

I think that I will get reading before I go any further.

Once again, thanks for the advice!
 
Hey, if you want, you can check out the tutorial I made. It was kinda a bit like the 50 dollar knife shop (Just much less info. More like a glossing over)

I'm a relative beginner too, using pretty minimal tools.
 
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