Story behind the Renegade?

C

Corduroy

Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Messages
1,442
This came up in the general forum, so I thought I'd take it here to get some real answers.

By my memory, the AFCK came out slightly before the Renegade. The cutout in the left (non-clip) side scale of the Renegade supported a rumor that the knife had originally been designed as a liner-lock and changed at the last minute because this would make it too much like the AFCK. The knives still appear so similar that I have always held the Renegade in contempt largely out of a feeling that it was an AFCK knock-off.

Now, the more I know both about the Spyderco folks and the history of Spyderco's involvement with the AFCK itself, the less likely this scenario appears. I'd like to set the record straight for myself and anyone else confused about the Renegade.

Mr. Glesser, could you please tell us a quick "bedtime story" about how the Renegade came to be? Was it going to be a liner-lock? If so, why was it changed? Any AFCK history you'd like to throw in would be appreciated, too
smile.gif


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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
Corduroy - The Renegade design was complete and shown in January at the SHOT Show of the intro year. Production was under way By March of the same year. I believe that was '94, but I'd have to check records.

It was designed at the request of ELUs wanting a Bowie style Clipit without the hump. I also wanted to add the choil, which I've come to appreciate for "General Utility" knives. We didn't make an aluminum model first as we did with the Blackhawk, because we'd already gathered some experience with G-10 on the Bob "T" C-15.

It was not designed as a linerlock, but as a lock back from the beginning. The cut out in the front side scale was there to access the hole. The alternative was to cut out both scales (like the AFCK), but in my opinion (against recomendations of some staff), this changed the balance and the sweet spot of the model.

Actually the cut out makes people think it is a linerlock and try to unlock the knife by pushing on the backside scale. This was one of the reasons for disconinueing until we can redesign the handle (if we ever do is a question at this time)

I don't know when the AFCK was actually designed, but I saw a prototype during the Guild Show (July) of the same year. Lester wanted to licence the hole so he could begin production of the AFCK and he wanted to be "proper".

I pointed out some improvements to Lester and informed him that this knife was very similar to a design that we were just introducing.

We made the Renegade for a while but producution problems in the new factory kept delivery slower than planned. Too many models on the agenda meant we couldn't promote it well. When push came to shove and we had to reduce SKUs, the Renegade was on of the first to go. The Original design for the Native was done about the same time. Talk about slow delivery!

I do not think that one was a copy of the other. Just two similar designs trying to serve the market. Realistically, if you take away the Spyderco hole and the Spyderco clip and the Spyderco serrations, The AFCK would not look at all like the Renegade.
sal
 
Sal,

Thanks for answering this question. I have taken a Dremel to the Renegade's right side handle and matched it to the left side. IMHO, it works MUCH better now and feels just about perfect in hand. I got the knife just to check it out, and then sell it. Only problem is I like it too much and now it is a "keeper".

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C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "
 
Thanks very much for that response, Mr. Glesser. I think I've been giving the Renegade the short end of the stick for a long time now because of its supposed relationship to the AFCK. Clearly it is one of convergence and not duplication. Also, as you say, the similarities are not as great as the "humpless" hole initially makes one believe.

I dunno, maybe if I could lay my aesthetic qualms aside I could let the Renegade into my collection. After all, I let the Military come and play, and it's one of my favorites now, as long as I don't look at it
wink.gif


Who says I'm opinionated? I must disagree!!!

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
Corduroy - Regarding the Military appearance. Some feel that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some believe that beauty is intrinsic in all things and require only that you be able to see it. Some even say beauty is as beauty does. For me, I must admit that form follows function. I didn't really pay too much attention to the appearance of the Military. That is why I sought out collaborators.

Many knife buyers (ELU) especially collectorsn buy by eye and appearance. I guess that probably most people buy most things in that manner.

My passion is seeking superior performance, overall and particular. The Military will grow on you, especially if you don't look at it. (It works well even if you don't look at it, quietly serving, the plain Jane.)

It is my belief that the ELU will ultimately gravitate towards the superior performing product where ever perfornace makes a diffeence. As a tool, reliable performance ultimately becomes a high priority.

As far as collecting "beautiful" pieces, I trust that our collaboration designs will do a far better job that I could. "A man's got to know his limitations".
sal
 
I was fortunate to happen onto a Renegade in my favorite knife store.I thought at the time I bought the knife it was a new addition to their line.After the fact I came to find out it was an older model in production a while back.Well anyway from the moment I set my eyes on it,I fell in love with it's design.I've looked at and handled a number of Spyderco's and for me personally I feel the Renegade is one of the best designed and excecuted Spyderco knives.I hope they do start producing them again,personally I like the one sided cutout.Well take care,RS
 
Mr. Glesser,

I know that Spyderco in-house designs are always function-first, but I've really grown to like their styling a lot, in most cases. An acquired taste? I dunno.

My hand loves the Military... my eyes not as much. But the more time I spend with it the better it gets. Funny, though, that the same steep thumb-ramp that jars its lines (IMO) also snags my pocket on the draw. Sometimes form and function go hand-in-hand.

I've been thinking a lot lately about form and function in cars. Can you imagine designing a car body to be "purely functional?" Or criticizing a gorgeous car because its lines served no aerodynamic purpose? Some industries understand the appeal of form when it doesn't impair function. In the knife world I too often feel that to include form or beauty in your assessment of a design means you aren't a "serious user." Can you imagine applying that attitude to sports cars? Both objects are functional machines, but both are also toys and status symbols.

I agree without hesitation that beauty is not the same for everyone, so it cannot be discussed in absolute terms. I think for me Spydercos often have a special beauty that starts in the hand and makes its way to the eyes through use and appreciation - kind of what I'm experiencing with the Military. Maybe if I held a Renegade for a few weeks...

Furthermore, I don't know what shift in thinking led to the "Experimental" series, but they are IMO a step in the right direction. All the function of previous designs but an eye towards the lines as well. Beautiful and with a flair that unites the line and makes them also distinctly Spydercos. More please!

Thanks as always for taking the time to read this.

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
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