Straightning an ATS-34 Blade

O

oldwolf

Joined
Dec 29, 2002
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617
Just finished a 15" Bowie of ATS-34 for a client with some engraving on the blade. Hadn't noticed the bar stock had a very slight curve at the ricasso. It was ready to send out for hardning and cyro so I heated it carefully to a dull blue and lightly tapped it with my copper hammer over a 8" area. Damn. How can soft copper dent a blade of ATS-34? I guess I should have used a wooden hammer which I don't have. Never had a problem with any carbon steel doing that. It's straight now, but I don't think I can every grind or hand sand those dings out. I think I'm screwed unless someone has a miracle laying around that I can use.
 
I've dented regular steel many times with brass and many other types of hammers and they weren't blue hot. You can grind them out if you have the room, or peen the rest of the area on both sides with a ballpeen to make it look intentional,
It sounds like you've seriously damaged the blade temper, if it was tempered right to begin with, so I'd either send it back to whoever did it to have it redone(are they professional blade heat treaters familiar with your steel type?it sounds not), scrap it, or change the design of it altogether to get the dents out.

Most stainless blade steels get way harder than most so called "carbon steels"(stainless usually has more carbon than tool steel), that's why I doubt the HT results were right, or it was way overheated when you pounded on it.

Either way I wouldn't trust that blade without being re heat treated and tempered by someone that knows stainless blade steels.
 
I dont think it was heat treated yet, right? So nothing to mess up temper-wise.

How deep are the dings? Id probably grind them out....

Also check your stock. Every time ive ever though stock was warped, it was a grind problem and not warped stock.
 
It's only ground from barstock I got from Admiral a few years back, not hardened yet. Thought I said it was ready to send out for heat treat and cryo. Guess I didn't make it clear. It was going to Texas Knifemakers for the treatment.
 
Tik Tok,
I don't think it was a bad grind as it was a gradual bow from about 2" from the tip to 2" from the butt. I'm sure not perfect. but it looks more like a gradual curve in the raw barstock. I didn't do much grinding in the tang area.

I checked the rest of my barstock and quite a bit of it is not straight. One piece was flat on one side and off by quite a bit on the other side. It looks like I need to check it better before I start grinding and get it straighter to start with.
 
oldwolf said:
It's only ground from barstock I got from Admiral a few years back, not hardened yet. Thought I said it was ready to send out for heat treat and cryo. Guess I didn't make it clear. It was going to Texas Knifemakers for the treatment.
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No, my fault, I didn't read your first post right. I read it that you got it back from HT and cryo. Old eyes!!

When you have annealed SS like that, just carefully bent it using a padded jaw vise and your hands.
Sometimes it's better to heat to 400 degrees in the oven to do this, but it makes it harder to handle.
Before the blade is ground(I know that's not your case) I just do it cold in the vise.
I've never had any luck straightening barstock with a hammer, it dings badly or just bends the other way.

Old leather scraps from belts works nice to keep from dinging the blade in the vise, but at 400*, maybe wood might be better. It won't light off at that temp, not the first few times anyway.;)

Sorry for the misunderstanding.:eek:
Good luck to you
 
Thanks Mike,

Sometimes my explanations are not very clear. Anyway it looks like I need to grind it down past the dings which means the engraving will go also. Oh well.

What pi$$es me of is that I have a perfectly good device I made for straighten a blade in my vise. Just got in a hurry and now I'm paying.

Hope someone else will learn from this post. I know I did.
 
I have bought from Admiral and the ATS-34 and 154CM were sheared from sheet stock and they don't have their shears set well for different thickness of sheet and kind of use a one setting fits all and it bows it as it shears and it leaves a fairly coarse blanked edge too. I really don't care for sheared stock, but if you know it is bowed to begin with, you can work with it. Another trick I use is if I detect a bow after heat treat, I will clamp the blade to a straight steel bar during the temper cycles and it will take it right out.
Thanks,
Jim
 
oldwolf said:
Tik Tok,
I don't think it was a bad grind as it was a gradual bow from about 2" from the tip to 2" from the butt. I'm sure not perfect. but it looks more like a gradual curve in the raw barstock. I didn't do much grinding in the tang area.

I checked the rest of my barstock and quite a bit of it is not straight. One piece was flat on one side and off by quite a bit on the other side. It looks like I need to check it better before I start grinding and get it straighter to start with.
Click to expand...
it's interesting you say some of the steel was flat on one side and off by quite a bit on the other side??
bar stock is normally Blanchard ground and this won't happen..Normally..
are you sure it was Bar stock?
154CM is about the same thing, I straighten it right out of the quench if it warps.. of course you cant do that if you send it out.
depending on the construction , map out the dings and possibly work them into maybe more engraving? a picture is worth a thousand words too:)
 
Off on one side? Not the other, Doesn't sound like a warpage proble. Barstock doesn't come blanchard ground unless you order it that way. If the bar stock doesn't have a hard bark, and if you full grind, it is mostly a waste of time. Sheet stock has its own problems, I would say more, but don't feel like getting flamed again. Dont heat before strightening. The steel should be fully annealed. You can't do anything but bad spot heating 154-cm, and ATS. Also don't hammer it. You will induce stress risers. Mike
 
it's interesting you say some of the steel was flat on one side and off by quite a bit on the other side??
bar stock is normally Blanchard ground and this won't happen..Normally..
are you sure it was Bar stock?


Yes. I call it barstock. Maybe I'm using the wrong term. I checked a piece of 440C 3' X1 1/2" X 3/16" and to look at it it seems to curve, but when I put my 2' straight edge on one side and it was pretty straight. The other side the straight edge rocked. That would tell me that it's thicker in the center. Edges appears to be sheared.
 
I say again, 154-CM and ATS-34 bar stock is rarely Blanchard ground unless you pay for the service. The exception is when ordering precision ground bar stock. This is precision ground. Not Blanchard ground. Bar stock normal comes in the as rolled, pickled and annealed condition. Mike
 
oldwolf said:
Thanks Mike,

...............................
What pi$$es me of is that I have a perfectly good device I made for straighten a blade in my vise. Just got in a hurry and now I'm paying.

....................
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the three round brass rods drilled and hung on a U shaped piece of wire, etc?
that can work well but I've honestly had better luck just eyeballing it and bending easy in the vise.

Your explanation was fine, BTW, it was my reading that was off. Eyes went faster than my brain could follow, or just saw what they wanted to.;)
 
I stand corrected on the Blanchard Ground bar stock,you should see swirl grind marks if Blanchard Ground my bad on that one, as Mike says
you can order it that way it's what I ordered some time ago..

Sheet stock has its own problems, I would say more,
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I agree Mike
Oldwolf I'd say to this
know the facts about what steel you order (not saying you don't,just food for thought for those that don't)(no mike I'm not talking about you just so you know that I'm not FLAMING you)
so you know what you are buying and getting into..
we do know by resent events,mistakes do happen
and things can get out of hand by not knowing facts
 
I stand corrected on the Blanchard Ground bar stock,you should see swirl grind marks if Blanchard Ground my bad on that one, as Mike says
you can order it that way it's what I ordered some time ago..
Click to expand...

I don't have anything that has swirls, so no Blanchard ground. I believe a couple pieces are 1095 precision ground (really pretty), but even that has a crook in the end of the bar. Maybe I'm being too fussy.
Is "Barstock" the ugly stuff that is kind of rounded on the edges?

Mike, the vise straightner I have is the two wood pieces, one like a U and the other fits into the U. Put the blade between and squeeze. Believe I saw it here somewhere. Works great if you don't get impatient and hit the blade with a 'Work Hardened Copper Hammer:jerkit:
 
I believe a couple pieces are 1095 precision ground (really pretty), but even that has a crook in the end of the bar. Maybe I'm being too fussy.
Is "Barstock" the ugly stuff that is kind of rounded on the edges?
Click to expand...
the ugly stuff ... probably sheared HR
unless you ordered the 1095 precision ground, it's CR or HR

Normally

this is from
Terry at Admiral check the size you have..

we offer HR 1095 in 1/8" - 3/16" - 1/4". It is plain
HR (hot rolled) NOT Annealed. The hardness can run from R/C 20 to 40 or
so depending on the mill rolling. The CRA is a cold rolled product that is
fully annealed with a clean smooth finish which runs about R/B 85/92 -
much softer than the HR. We can furnish the HR in the annealed condition
which would be higher in price.
 
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