strange etch

Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Messages
6,212
not sure what to make of this its the 2 nd cpm3v knife the first didn't look like this same heat treat but maybe i missed the temp or time just a little dont see how
so heres the specs
cpm3v
hand sand 220 grit
cleaned with vinegar
etch and steel wool scrubbing
i could sorta see the markings while sanding before any etch so im thinking over/under heated it
ooo and its realy just on the one side just a hint on the other
thanks for helping
butch
26163629_0746bf9cf1.jpg

26163630_3b0974582f.jpg
 
I believe you have discovered CPM techno-wootz-like texture as exposed by the etch.

Actually I kind of like it.
 
only thing is it was from the same barstock as another knife and i didnt get the wooty etch
and btw i like it too i just want to make sure the knife is not messed up
shop user for me if it is :)
 
looking nice is all fine and good but if it was a bad quench or something i need to know so as to change my ways.
guess i need to talk to fitzo or mete
 
Butch, mete's a metallurgist, not me.

Nonetheless, in his absence I suggest we try to find out what we can. If the mottling is evident on the edge of the tang "spine", take it to the grinder and take off a little more than handsanding would do. Then re-etch. It'll tell whether it's a surface phenomenon.

If it's some kind of alloy segregation that's not a good thing. The whole idea of the CPM's is to get a very fine even dispersion of the alloy carbides.

Hope that's a start.....
 
How much of the rind did you grind off after HT.It looks like you may have taken the blade to too final of a finish before HT.Take off about .01-.02" and see what it looks like.It may not have that pattern any more.Too high a heat before quench is most likely the culprit.
A little metallurgy for those who want to know:
Heating high carbon steel above the optimal temperature creates large grain particles(they can be 3/4" round).The steel can even fall apart in a zig-zag or gravelly pattern upon quench.Done to excess,it creates a pattern that looks like cable damascus (but is very weak).Another reason to bring the steel slowly to pre-heat,and then gradually to the austentizing temp is to avoid compressing the center of the blade when the austentite shrinks upon conversion,and thus creating stress in the core - which creates warpage.To avoid this don't stick the blade in a roaring forge at full throttle.Pre-heat in an oven to about 200 below the critical temp first and put into the HT oven or forge which is running at the desired heat(Not 2500-2800 like you were welding damascus).Hold it for the correct amount of time to allow the carbides to fully dissolve and migrate throughout the mix.Quench and temper.The keys to this are 1)the rate of heating not being too fast,2)The oven/forge not heating the blade beyond the austentite solution temperature,and 3)the hold being long enough for good solution.Done right it creates fine grains and an even structure without internal stress or cracks.It will also greatly reduce the surface burned spots caused by too hot a forge/oven.All of this is ,of course, the final step to the annealing,stress relieving, normalizing,Spheroidizing,etc. that you should have done when working the steel and preparing it for HT.
Making the optimal blade is a lot more complex than heating up a piece of steel till it looks good and red ,and sticking it into a bucket of oil.
Stacy
 
bladsmth said:
How much of the rind did you grind off after HT.

Pre-heat in an oven to about 200 below the critical temp first and put into the HT oven
Making the optimal blade is a lot more complex than heating up a piece of steel till it looks good and red ,and sticking it into a bucket of oil.
Stacy

I didnt grind alot off the blade so im going to try that
I do run a preheat and i also ramp the temp up from 0 with the steel in the kiln
i find it hard to see the color of the blade due to the foil and the kiln door ;)
thank you for all the info and i ll keep you posted on what happenes
butch
 
Butch - Good,if the HT was OK,then it is probably limited to the surface.The data I was giving mostly applies to simple HC steels.High Alloy steels,like CPM3V have the additional problem of oxygen exclusion to deal with.Let us know if it goes away.BTW what temperature did you austentize it at?
Stacy
 
the foil let go up in the false edge not much but now i know that it doesnt take much to cause a prob
going to make the decarb a grove to cut chainlink fence
i ll post pix after it gets finished
i ll have to get the austentize temp and time acording to the evenheat kiln
i used i dont have it on me at this computer
note tom all i might have been drinking while typing
ok i was but i will do better tomarow :)
least i had better
butch
 
got the sanding done and it was just at the surface of the steel lucky me
the austentize temp was 1950 for 27 min air quench
i think i should oil quench my smaller hunter and folder blades but for the OB knife i wanted to have it round 57/58 Rc had it tested and it was right there
acording to the data sheet im lossing up to 2 points Rc by air cooling
 
Good thread! The trade off between higher RC and lower RC is a tough one :D
I am finding that I like being able to sharpen my knives easily and know that they wont chip in hard use. I was talking to a customer Saterday and he said "you know Brian, just because your knife may not shave hair doesnt mean it wont cut like the dickens!" He may have a point ;)
 
Back
Top