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Strider folders
- Thread starter Lycosa
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2000
- Messages
- 187
Thats a double yes!!!
Visit the Usual Suspects/Strider Hardcore forum and judge for yourself.
There is a substantial body of hardcore Strider fans.
They absolutely do make some of the strongest folder models available.
In my opinion and experience, Strider folders suffer a bit in fit and finish. My SMF had to be returned for a tune-up to cure blade-wobble. My experience is not unique. At the price you pay for a Strider, you would expect fit and finish comparable to Spyderco and Benchmade folders.
I have no opinion about Strider fixed-blade knives.
Hope this helps!
There is a substantial body of hardcore Strider fans.
They absolutely do make some of the strongest folder models available.
In my opinion and experience, Strider folders suffer a bit in fit and finish. My SMF had to be returned for a tune-up to cure blade-wobble. My experience is not unique. At the price you pay for a Strider, you would expect fit and finish comparable to Spyderco and Benchmade folders.
I have no opinion about Strider fixed-blade knives.
Hope this helps!
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2004
- Messages
- 333
I have a couple of Striders (SNG and AR) and I like them both they are good knives. They are very tough blades. That being said I prefer my large Sebenza. Better fit and finish and almost as robust a good working knife/edc well for me at least.
If you can give them both a try if you don't like one or the other or either for that matter you can easily unload them on the forums. Both camps have loyal followings, for good reason. Also both companies in my experience offer good customer service and back their products.
All that being said I just lucked into a Hinderer and it has impressed me to say the least. As rugged as a Strider with the fit, finish and polish of my Sebenza. they are quite hard to find as when they pop up for sale they go quick. If you have the patience and a little luck I highly reccomend giving one a try.:thumbup: I will be on the lookout for another I can tell you that much!
If you can give them both a try if you don't like one or the other or either for that matter you can easily unload them on the forums. Both camps have loyal followings, for good reason. Also both companies in my experience offer good customer service and back their products.
All that being said I just lucked into a Hinderer and it has impressed me to say the least. As rugged as a Strider with the fit, finish and polish of my Sebenza. they are quite hard to find as when they pop up for sale they go quick. If you have the patience and a little luck I highly reccomend giving one a try.:thumbup: I will be on the lookout for another I can tell you that much!
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 12,956
If there is one thing I like about Striders its that they are in fact geared toward bare bones user oriented people. You get one of their knives and you just want to use it. The grinds are great and about as uniform and consistant as any out there and also they hold up fair in everyway except for numerous reports of some vertical blade play cropping up which is usually related to the bottom of the lock and a smaller wear area but also and more likely related to the lock not being sprung quite enough to continue to move its way inward to self correct. Many times its a simple matter of taking the knife apart and simply tweaking the lock for a tad more spring and its fixed up in the time it takes to take them apart and put them back together.
The PT and SnG which I have owned have some features that make them very well designed. Actually I still have the SnG and contrary to what many may think on other forums and maybe even surprizingly to some because of some statements concerning the 'big ifs' with Mick Strider and his past that I made that SnG folder is still one of my favorite users and go to knives because it stands on its own as a great knife.
The frame lock obviously is one of those advantages, the warranty of course is second to none and follows the knife which is pretty good these days, but also the built in choil for being able to choke up on the grip for both better security of the lock and also for some detail work with the tip third of the edge or point make it a superbly made user too.
There are also some reports floating around out there regarding the SnG because of the way its made actually helping some guys from losing their knives to law enforcement at times when stopped with one. The reason being that the cutting edge on that knife, not the blade length per say but the actual cutting edge is barely 2.75" in length on most of them and some guys were allowed to go their merry way thanks to that in areas where they could well have lost a good knife. Overall the blade is above three inches in length but if you point that feature out that the cutting edge is under that many times these days that will be at least something to try on a bigger knife with tiger stripes and a tough ass look to it. Its helped others thats documented.
Overall I like the SnG and find it to be hard to find much fault with personally. Regardless of what anyone says about the man behind them or one of them anyway, they make a hell of a knife!
STR
The PT and SnG which I have owned have some features that make them very well designed. Actually I still have the SnG and contrary to what many may think on other forums and maybe even surprizingly to some because of some statements concerning the 'big ifs' with Mick Strider and his past that I made that SnG folder is still one of my favorite users and go to knives because it stands on its own as a great knife.
The frame lock obviously is one of those advantages, the warranty of course is second to none and follows the knife which is pretty good these days, but also the built in choil for being able to choke up on the grip for both better security of the lock and also for some detail work with the tip third of the edge or point make it a superbly made user too.
There are also some reports floating around out there regarding the SnG because of the way its made actually helping some guys from losing their knives to law enforcement at times when stopped with one. The reason being that the cutting edge on that knife, not the blade length per say but the actual cutting edge is barely 2.75" in length on most of them and some guys were allowed to go their merry way thanks to that in areas where they could well have lost a good knife. Overall the blade is above three inches in length but if you point that feature out that the cutting edge is under that many times these days that will be at least something to try on a bigger knife with tiger stripes and a tough ass look to it. Its helped others thats documented.
Overall I like the SnG and find it to be hard to find much fault with personally. Regardless of what anyone says about the man behind them or one of them anyway, they make a hell of a knife!
STR
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 12,956
The blades are fine, the knives are pretty nice from Buck overall but they are liner locks and not frame locks. I had the 889 or maybe it was the 882 I don't recall. But it was ok and in ATS34 not the 420HC. The lock worked fine, but it was so thin it bowed in the middle under pressure. I measured it at .040 thickness so thats why. Although the lock never defeated or even acted like it would that bowing was not the most reassuring thing for me to see and the knife was sold for a song.
On the 880 and 881 though. Man those things are awesome! That little 881 is a heck of a tank and one of my favorite Buck knives. A little giant actually. I am going by memory but the locks on the First Production run models of these were .080 thinkness in titanium for the 880 model and the blade on it was BG42 for that limited run. Same blade steel on the 881 and the lock on it was .075 titanium as I recall for the first production run. In the regular production run of knives they went to ATS34 blade steel and the lock on the 880 moved down to .075 in titanium and the 881 measured .070 also and again in titanium. Still plenty thick either way but the 1st Prod models were just a tad beefier and in that super blade steel making them special.
In fact in many ways I would rate these little giants as the best liner locks around in thicker titanium on the whole. Both the 880 and 881 folder were overbuilt to beat all. Very thick blades, like 4.5mm or something as I recall. You are not going to be doing much whittling with one but man you could almost hammer the things in like a spike and use them for leg ups.
Both the small 881 models and the 880s that are much larger seemed to have some issues with 'rocking blades' but the locks were solid and thick other than this. The slight vertical movement of the blades drove a lot of folks nuts and many times if you had one for sale that was the first thing people would inquire about but it really wasn't so bad that they didn't work obviously and since many of them were shipped that way from Buck it couldn't be something that was the fault of the seller its just the way they were/are. I went through three before I finally got one that was rock solid in each model, so they are out there if you are lucky.
STR
On the 880 and 881 though. Man those things are awesome! That little 881 is a heck of a tank and one of my favorite Buck knives. A little giant actually. I am going by memory but the locks on the First Production run models of these were .080 thinkness in titanium for the 880 model and the blade on it was BG42 for that limited run. Same blade steel on the 881 and the lock on it was .075 titanium as I recall for the first production run. In the regular production run of knives they went to ATS34 blade steel and the lock on the 880 moved down to .075 in titanium and the 881 measured .070 also and again in titanium. Still plenty thick either way but the 1st Prod models were just a tad beefier and in that super blade steel making them special.
In fact in many ways I would rate these little giants as the best liner locks around in thicker titanium on the whole. Both the 880 and 881 folder were overbuilt to beat all. Very thick blades, like 4.5mm or something as I recall. You are not going to be doing much whittling with one but man you could almost hammer the things in like a spike and use them for leg ups.
Both the small 881 models and the 880s that are much larger seemed to have some issues with 'rocking blades' but the locks were solid and thick other than this. The slight vertical movement of the blades drove a lot of folks nuts and many times if you had one for sale that was the first thing people would inquire about but it really wasn't so bad that they didn't work obviously and since many of them were shipped that way from Buck it couldn't be something that was the fault of the seller its just the way they were/are. I went through three before I finally got one that was rock solid in each model, so they are out there if you are lucky.
STR
Watching from WELL outside the world of multi-hundred dollar knivs, I'll dare say that Hinderer with their oft praised quality and comparable initial pricing stole a lot of the thunder from Striders.
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Yes I would agree, however getting a Hinderer right now is alot tougher than getting a strider. Getting a hinderer 2nd hand is costlier than a new SNG.
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Looking at the Hinderer close I often times wonder who copied what from whom regarding the Striders and Rick's knives. They are both nice but obviously have a lot of similar characteristics in both brands and apparently they both follow similar philosophy in what they want.
However, Rick's are not only finished out better better but overall his lock contact is much better than the Striders are showing a lot more in the way of tight tolerances there, and in the two I had his relief area for the bend to spring the lock was also thicker.
STR
However, Rick's are not only finished out better better but overall his lock contact is much better than the Striders are showing a lot more in the way of tight tolerances there, and in the two I had his relief area for the bend to spring the lock was also thicker.
STR
I hear you. But remember, a LARGE part of the Strider mistique would be the answer to the following question:
What is the TOUGHEST KNIFE out there?
Threads like this would pop up with certain regularity and after a few post somebody would eventually answer 'Strider' and that would put an end to that thread (and probably start off other tangents).
NOW when the question is posed, the inevitable answer seems to be Hinderer AND as STR kindly pointed out, Hinderer is putting that tough product out with, what many respondents point to as, amazing level of F&F.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2005
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- 5,069
After having a few Striders, (3 SMF ,4 AR ,2 GB, 3 SnG ,and 1 PT) I can honestly say, that they are great blades, they look fantastic (to me) but the locking mechanism has a little to be desired like STR said, I developed lock slippage in 3 of them, all due to the strange 1mm contact area they all had. Strange to have a .125 thick ti frame and a 1mm lock face. (But its a shit vent right?!)
The blade would get off center because the hole on the G10 would wear out is you did any twisting with the knife, and you would then have to hopefully find a "sweetspot" to correct it. Also I've had one with a bad heat treat, the blade would chip and crumble on the sharpmaker when sharpening it, rebeveling didn't help. But just one, and it just goes to show that it can happen to every company. It was not a Bos one. And as for the greatest warranty out there, if you send one back to the "spa" make sure you don't have an older model, since they won't repair it in my experience.. I had an original style AR with the old Buck style clip that literally had NO detent ball left, it would swing open by itself, unless tightened down so that you had to open it with both hands. Even then it was sketchy, if you jumped or ran.....lets just say no fun. Sent it to the spa, where they sharpened it, and sent it back with a note saying that model was not made any more and they do not have the parts to fix it since the lock face was different (this one did NOT have the goofy 1mm lock up it was full like most others), so it should be retired if I felt it was unsafe. I guess I retired my Strider experience after that. So IMHO they are great 180.00 knives, that cost 300.00 to 500.00. The PT did kick ass however, and if I were to ever get a Strider again that would be the one. If I could find one for 150.00.
As usual Your millage may vary.
Oh I would like a Bos DB though, those look cool!
The blade would get off center because the hole on the G10 would wear out is you did any twisting with the knife, and you would then have to hopefully find a "sweetspot" to correct it. Also I've had one with a bad heat treat, the blade would chip and crumble on the sharpmaker when sharpening it, rebeveling didn't help. But just one, and it just goes to show that it can happen to every company. It was not a Bos one. And as for the greatest warranty out there, if you send one back to the "spa" make sure you don't have an older model, since they won't repair it in my experience.. I had an original style AR with the old Buck style clip that literally had NO detent ball left, it would swing open by itself, unless tightened down so that you had to open it with both hands. Even then it was sketchy, if you jumped or ran.....lets just say no fun. Sent it to the spa, where they sharpened it, and sent it back with a note saying that model was not made any more and they do not have the parts to fix it since the lock face was different (this one did NOT have the goofy 1mm lock up it was full like most others), so it should be retired if I felt it was unsafe. I guess I retired my Strider experience after that. So IMHO they are great 180.00 knives, that cost 300.00 to 500.00. The PT did kick ass however, and if I were to ever get a Strider again that would be the one. If I could find one for 150.00.
As usual Your millage may vary.Oh I would like a Bos DB though, those look cool!
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
As the Hinderers are custom and fewer are produced, Strider is in no danger of being pushed aside. 
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- Messages
- 12,956
I can't believe any maker would ever run out of detent balls. Thats such a simple fix it is really bogus IMO and no excuse for not fixing that up and sending it home if that is the whole story.
STR
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Oh now in that respect I would def agree with you.
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Sam I did not remember but I understand your frustrations with that situation.
I've had some private contacts asking me about the rocking blade thing as well as what I'm talking about with the contact of the lock to the blade differences I've noticed from various knives in the industry.
So without really knowing exactly how to convey it I've drawn a picture for those wondering. Imagine that the blade side is that on the left and the line represents the contact point of the blade to the lock, with the lock obviously being on the right side.
Seen here we have a rough idea only and done free hand at that. Its supposed to represent what I typically see on the locks from the ones in question. On the Striders, and posted on their web site you can read about the theory of the lock contact. From their web site it reads the following:
Why does only the lower section of the lock bar contact the blade on Strider Folders?
Per Mick Strider:
"The reason we only want contact at the lower section of the lock bar is this:
1. For the most solid lock, you need two points of contact, as far apart as possible. (bump stop and lock face)
2. For the most solid lock, your lock contact should be as far away from the center line of the pivot as possible. This keeps your lock from "rolling" off the blade.
3. No matter how far from the pivot center your lock surface is, if its contaminated with crap (sand), it will fail. We send knives into some nasty shit. This is a huge concern for us. By making contact at the lowest section only, it creates a "shit vent" above the lock surface. That is the same reason we make our detent hole go all the way through the blade....its a "shit vent"."
What he is referring to as rolling is another of the features of how the lock under pressure from use can behave.
And while I agree with all the above except for where he mentions a 'shit vent' which is just a clever way to justify lack of tolerance IMO, I see room for improvement. This is what I asked about when I wrote both Mr. Emerson and Mr. Strider asking them why they did not make their locks more like Chris Reeves. The one reply I got back was interesting. Strider never got back to me personally but it was shortly after this that I was given this link to the information they provide on their locks. Emerson wrote me back personally about six weeks later with a reply that was surprisingly lengthy but the real surprise was that he pointed out that he made his locks just like Chris Reeves and that they were friends.
Ok well I don't see that when I compare the locks but I believe Ernie thinks he does make his just the same. However, what I see is that they may indeed do things similar but they sure don't have the same tolerances. I agree with the theory above that the two contacts should be as far apart as possible for the knife they are used in, and that the farther from the mid line of the pivot the better. Thats all well and good but what I see is that when little effort or lack of tolerance to control the amount of surface area contact at the lock is typical the end result is like those two on the left shown in my diagram which can be seen with the naked eye in any comparison of any of the above knives by simply looking at them and comparing them side by side by the way and from looking down on the contact of the blades and comparing the angle of that contact interface or ramp as it is sometimes referrred to. You will note stark differences there also.
Typically what I see is that the wear patterns on both the Hinderer and Reeves knives are sometimes 4 or even 5 times bigger in surface area than a comparable Strider or Emerson knife of the same size and sometimes the same thickness. In other words there is a lot of room for more surface area to contact the blade to support it on some vs others and some do a better job at it. Thats all I was ever referring to. The technique may well be the same but the end result sure isn't.
More surface area on the lock that is wearing into and contacting the blade equals longer life. Thats the bottom line to an end line user period. And please note this is not posted to start a big war. I'm just calling it like I see it and you can verify anything I've pointed out in this post on your own in the time it takes you to pull out your Hinderer or Reeves knife and compare them to your Strider or Emerson. Granted some are better than others. What I'm saying is that I see a higher tolerance in the Reeves knives which I've seen a lot of and also a higher consistancy for these tolerances where they seem to all be within a certain high tolerance with few falling below that if any.
I believe this is probably the same with Rick Hinderers knives but having only seen two examples I reserve judgement there. Its looking good though. Its also worth noting that the knives made to begin with like the Reeves or the Hinderer make it possible to do the stop pin increase in diameter trick to renew a worn contact where the lock has travelled all the way across the tang. One made this way with higher tolerance won't show the gap the Strider or Emerson has in it to begin with even after being adjusted.
Now as to rocking locks. Well that happens when the lock typically is contacting the blade but in the wrong place, like too much in the middle, or at the top instead of being primarily at the bottom for all the contact area like it should be. You can see that on the bottom comparision drawing. I hope that covers it.
EDIT: I've also stuck a pic in here of a small Sebenza I own and my SnG showing how a lay person can compare. Obviously this is the easy way. The other is to simply take two users apart and compare the wear patterns which is the real tell all as to which is going to last longer and which will or can likely develop blade play vertically as well as self correction over time and how soon. For example, its very rare I ever see a Sebenza with indenting but you will see that on every Strider and every Emerson you own. Its just how they are. Again it doesn't mean they won't work. Obviiously they do and obviously it does not keep me from buying either of them. What you are seeing here is just an education and nothing more and a reason behind why the locks have the patterns of behavior repeatedly seen and documented by end line users.
STR
I've had some private contacts asking me about the rocking blade thing as well as what I'm talking about with the contact of the lock to the blade differences I've noticed from various knives in the industry.
So without really knowing exactly how to convey it I've drawn a picture for those wondering. Imagine that the blade side is that on the left and the line represents the contact point of the blade to the lock, with the lock obviously being on the right side.
Seen here we have a rough idea only and done free hand at that. Its supposed to represent what I typically see on the locks from the ones in question. On the Striders, and posted on their web site you can read about the theory of the lock contact. From their web site it reads the following:
Why does only the lower section of the lock bar contact the blade on Strider Folders?
Per Mick Strider:
"The reason we only want contact at the lower section of the lock bar is this:
1. For the most solid lock, you need two points of contact, as far apart as possible. (bump stop and lock face)
2. For the most solid lock, your lock contact should be as far away from the center line of the pivot as possible. This keeps your lock from "rolling" off the blade.
3. No matter how far from the pivot center your lock surface is, if its contaminated with crap (sand), it will fail. We send knives into some nasty shit. This is a huge concern for us. By making contact at the lowest section only, it creates a "shit vent" above the lock surface. That is the same reason we make our detent hole go all the way through the blade....its a "shit vent"."
What he is referring to as rolling is another of the features of how the lock under pressure from use can behave.
And while I agree with all the above except for where he mentions a 'shit vent' which is just a clever way to justify lack of tolerance IMO, I see room for improvement. This is what I asked about when I wrote both Mr. Emerson and Mr. Strider asking them why they did not make their locks more like Chris Reeves. The one reply I got back was interesting. Strider never got back to me personally but it was shortly after this that I was given this link to the information they provide on their locks. Emerson wrote me back personally about six weeks later with a reply that was surprisingly lengthy but the real surprise was that he pointed out that he made his locks just like Chris Reeves and that they were friends.
Ok well I don't see that when I compare the locks but I believe Ernie thinks he does make his just the same. However, what I see is that they may indeed do things similar but they sure don't have the same tolerances. I agree with the theory above that the two contacts should be as far apart as possible for the knife they are used in, and that the farther from the mid line of the pivot the better. Thats all well and good but what I see is that when little effort or lack of tolerance to control the amount of surface area contact at the lock is typical the end result is like those two on the left shown in my diagram which can be seen with the naked eye in any comparison of any of the above knives by simply looking at them and comparing them side by side by the way and from looking down on the contact of the blades and comparing the angle of that contact interface or ramp as it is sometimes referrred to. You will note stark differences there also.
Typically what I see is that the wear patterns on both the Hinderer and Reeves knives are sometimes 4 or even 5 times bigger in surface area than a comparable Strider or Emerson knife of the same size and sometimes the same thickness. In other words there is a lot of room for more surface area to contact the blade to support it on some vs others and some do a better job at it. Thats all I was ever referring to. The technique may well be the same but the end result sure isn't.
More surface area on the lock that is wearing into and contacting the blade equals longer life. Thats the bottom line to an end line user period. And please note this is not posted to start a big war. I'm just calling it like I see it and you can verify anything I've pointed out in this post on your own in the time it takes you to pull out your Hinderer or Reeves knife and compare them to your Strider or Emerson. Granted some are better than others. What I'm saying is that I see a higher tolerance in the Reeves knives which I've seen a lot of and also a higher consistancy for these tolerances where they seem to all be within a certain high tolerance with few falling below that if any.
I believe this is probably the same with Rick Hinderers knives but having only seen two examples I reserve judgement there. Its looking good though. Its also worth noting that the knives made to begin with like the Reeves or the Hinderer make it possible to do the stop pin increase in diameter trick to renew a worn contact where the lock has travelled all the way across the tang. One made this way with higher tolerance won't show the gap the Strider or Emerson has in it to begin with even after being adjusted.
Now as to rocking locks. Well that happens when the lock typically is contacting the blade but in the wrong place, like too much in the middle, or at the top instead of being primarily at the bottom for all the contact area like it should be. You can see that on the bottom comparision drawing. I hope that covers it.
EDIT: I've also stuck a pic in here of a small Sebenza I own and my SnG showing how a lay person can compare. Obviously this is the easy way. The other is to simply take two users apart and compare the wear patterns which is the real tell all as to which is going to last longer and which will or can likely develop blade play vertically as well as self correction over time and how soon. For example, its very rare I ever see a Sebenza with indenting but you will see that on every Strider and every Emerson you own. Its just how they are. Again it doesn't mean they won't work. Obviiously they do and obviously it does not keep me from buying either of them. What you are seeing here is just an education and nothing more and a reason behind why the locks have the patterns of behavior repeatedly seen and documented by end line users.
STR
I have one Strider and have had it for about a year and a half. It is an AR that has the Bos ht. I've modified on it a little over the past 1 1/2 years and like it very much! I've moved the pocket clip to the last hole that holds the frame together in order to get deeper carry, I've sanded down and vertically grooved the black micarta handles and polished them out to a wood grained look, satin finished the liners, thumbstuds, and the top of the blade, polished the tiger stripes to a barely seen condition, and tweaked the lock on it to require a stiff push to unlock it. The locking liner still has a lot of room to move across the blade and this one has sttod up to the spinewhack test on several tries. I really like the knife and though I don't cut much with my primary edc's I still get quite a kick out of carrying this one around.:thumbup:
:thumbup: