Strop a dull steel/cleaning strop?

[Hashishiin]

I've used the Sharpmaker more than anything to sharpen my knives - I have used a strop a little bit, but always with assistance from a Sharpmaker. I didn't want to learn bad technique, so I'd been avoiding stropping, but I do not want to unnecessarily remove steel when I can strop a knife back to shaving - particularly things like K390, or M4.

I'm looking to perfect my stropping, and to touch up my fiance's Sage 5 in M4, and have a few old SAKs to practice on, as well. Difference being, the Sage is still sharp, just needs touching up, whereas the Vics do not catch fingernail, could be called "dull", but the edges are not wrecked or anything, just... dull-ish knives. So, my question is, can I strop a dull knife like that back to sharpness? Vic steel is great for teaching technique, I have found, as the soft steel rewards good technique with the stone, I've seen.

I use diamond compound on the strop. This may be important. I have some green compound around somewhere, too. What about cleaning? I once took a couple wipes on the strop after using a knife on the sharpmaker, am unsure if this requires a full cleaning though, I have been told to just add more emulsion over the affected area since it is so minimally used. Also, only half of the area of the strop has been compounded, I still have half of the smooth side totally clear to apply/use.

I have other things I could potentially use, too, but these are what I was wanting to sharpen now. Dull-ish (but edge in good shape) SAKs to learn stropping technique, so I can touch up this M4 Sage on the strop, yay or nay?

Thanks for any info.

 

[Triple_D]

I often "touch up" a knife with a strop. I don't have anything special, just some heavy (maybe 8/9 oz) leather glued to a scrap piece of plywood. Rough side up. I only use green compound (no idea what the micron size is), and it works pretty darn well. It will definitely bring the edge back to shaving sharp, assuming it wasn't too bad to start with. Darn near a mirror finish with enough strokes.

I think the main thing to watch out for, is using a leather that is too soft, and pressing down too hard. That can cause the leather to "curl up" around the actual apex of the blade, and thus dulling the knife.

For cleaning, I use a single edge razor blade held perpendicular to the strop, and just scrape the old compound off.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

If the edge is definitely dull, a strop won't fix that.

For the SAK, or any other knife in fact, you might consider using diamond / cbn rods for the Sharpmaker, since you're already accustomed to using that for sharpening. So, when the edge gets that 'dull', just a few light passes on the diamond / cbn can quickly reset the edge bevel to a clean & complete apex. Then refine it to your preference on the SMs ceramic rods. After that is where stropping can make a difference. A strop is an edge enhancement tool, after an edge is made ready for it, i.e., fully apexed, on stones or other hones. But stropping really won't 'fix' a dull edge, if it's truly dull.

And the minimal way in which a strop is supposed to be used as an edge enhancement tool means it shouldn't be necessary to clean it or reapply compound frequently. Stropping is meant to be done in just a few passes - it should never take any longer than a minute or two, or even a few seconds' worth of stropping, to notice a real improvement. If you're not seeing any improvement in sharpness after many, many passes on the strop, it's a sign more work is needed on the stones first. And the likelihood is, if you strop too long on an edge that's even marginally dull, you're likely degrading the edge further, i.e., rounding off the shoulders of the dulled apex, which will reduce cutting aggression even more.

Don't overthink the metal loss aspect in maintaining your knives' edges. Knives that get used will NEED some real sharpening occasionally. That's just part of the life of a knife. And it's OK.

 

[Hashishiin]

If the edge is definitely dull, a strop won't fix that.

For the SAK, or any other knife in fact, you might consider using diamond / cbn rods for the Sharpmaker, since you're already accustomed to using that for sharpening. So, when the edge gets that 'dull', just a few light passes on the diamond / cbn can quickly reset the edge bevel to a clean & complete apex. Then refine it to your preference on the SM's ceramic rods. After that is where stropping can make a difference. A strop is an edge enhancement tool, after an edge is made ready for it, i.e., fully apexed, on stones or other hones. But stropping really won't 'fix' a dull edge, if it's truly dull.

And the minimal way in which a strop is supposed to be used as an edge enhancement tool means it shouldn't be necessary to clean it or reapply compound frequently. Stropping is meant to be done in just a few passes - it should never take any longer than a minute or two, or even a few seconds' worth of stropping, to notice a real improvement. If you're not seeing any improvement in sharpness after many, many passes on the strop, it's a sign more work is needed on the stones first. And the likelihood is, if you strop too long on an edge that's even marginally dull, you're likely degrading the edge further, i.e., rounding off the shoulders of the dulled apex, which will reduce cutting aggression even more.

Don't overthink the metal loss aspect in maintaining your knives' edges. Knives that get used will NEED some real sharpening occasionally. That's just part of the life of a knife. And it's OK.

Man, my notifications buried your reply! This is the reply I needed!

Yeah, I can literally take three swipes on each side and sharpen a SAK, that's what I am best at actually - taking a SAK and making it cut waves into paper with 10 seconds on the Sharpmaker. Love doing that. And yes, I did have to use the stones for my outright DULL SAKs. I have no problem with sharpening for real, by the way - I just have been needlessly slogging away steel on knives that have never been stropped because of my fear of messing it up. I am picking it up, though. I tried to strop some SAKs, new ones, so they were already sharp, thin, flexy BD1N kitchen knives (Z-Cut), 3V Puukko, Cruwear PM2 and a M4 Sage.

Weird results, though. I had the best luck stropping on the 3V, Cruwear PM2, and M4 Sage. By far. I think this is to do with the geometry - would one expect stropping a flexier, or smaller, knife to be harder than a larger knife? Maybe it is because I am using diamond compound. Got the SAKs extremely sharp, but only could do it on the Sharpmaker, diamond strop was meh for SAKs. Do not know why.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Man, my notifications buried your reply! This is the reply I needed!

Yeah, I can literally take three swipes on each side and sharpen a SAK, that's what I am best at actually - taking a SAK and making it cut waves into paper with 10 seconds on the Sharpmaker. Love doing that. And yes, I did have to use the stones for my outright DULL SAKs. I have no problem with sharpening for real, by the way - I just have been needlessly slogging away steel on knives that have never been stropped because of my fear of messing it up. I am picking it up, though. I tried to strop some SAKs, new ones, so they were already sharp, thin, flexy BD1N kitchen knives (Z-Cut), 3V Puukko, Cruwear PM2 and a M4 Sage.

Weird results, though. I had the best luck stropping on the 3V, Cruwear PM2, and M4 Sage. By far. I think this is to do with the geometry - would one expect stropping a flexier, or smaller, knife to be harder than a larger knife? Maybe it is because I am using diamond compound. Got the SAKs extremely sharp, but only could do it on the Sharpmaker, diamond strop was meh for SAKs. Do not know why.

I've mentioned it many times recently, I always try to minimize the amount of stropping I do anymore with my knives. For simpler steels such as in the SAK, they respond very well to finishing touches on the SM rods (I usually prefer the medium), followed by some light stropping on bare paper over a hard backing, or just a few swipes on a leather belt (no compound) or on my jeans. Most any compound on a strop will quickly strip away the toothy bite in such steels - I prefer to keep that toothy bite, if possible. I used to polish them more, but found that the apex just gets too thin & too flimsy in these steels, if they're polished too much.

And for any stropping in general, I strongly prefer using paper or fabric (linen or denim) over a hard backing, OR strop only on hardwood. The thinness of the paper or fabric, plus the firm backing underneath it, will help minimize any edge-rounding issues that can happen on leather strops or anything else with a soft backing. Especially for polishing, a hardwood strop makes it much easier to take it further, maintaining a little more pressure for angle control, without too much risk of edge-rounding.

And for more flexible blades, a two-handed stropping technique helps to keep the bevel flush on the strop when the blade flexes. One hand controlling the handle, and a fingertip or two applying some light pressure just behind the edge portion being worked, to keep the bevel flush on the strop. This would be the same sort of two-handed technique that works well for sharpening on bench stones - the only difference being the direction of motion (edge-trailing for stropping).