Strop Help

630skirmish · Mar 11, 2015

I bought a strop which is a very good quality one and its loaded with green and white compounds. Its just not really doing what I thought it would, my knives just seem to loose a lot of bite and become somewhat dull. I am not rolling the edge with extreme angels and have the proper technique so is it the compounds that are the problem? I have heard that these compounds dont do much for steels like Z-wear or s35vn etc so would diamond spray be my solution?

Edit: I use DMT diamond stones, 1 course and 1 Ultra fine. I can slice through paper and other mediums easily though I still have much room for improvement with my edge.
I use a StropMan Compact HD strop with green and white compound.

dalefuller · Mar 11, 2015

How sharp are your knives before you switch to the strops? What do you use to do the initial sharpening? In most cases, stropping is used to refine an already sharp edge. It will take some of the toothiness off of an edge by polishing the edge and making it smoother. If the edge isn't already sharp, stropping can make it seem duller. It sounds like that may be the case here.

I prefer diamond spray or compound to the green Cr02 or other pastes. I've used grey, green, and white compounds and I just have better results with diamond compounds. But I do take care of the initial sharpening with a Sharpmaker or benchstones before I go to the strops. Make sure you have an edge that's ready for refining before you switch to your strops.

stitchawl · Mar 12, 2015

630skirmish said:
I bought a strop which is a very good quality one and its loaded with green and white compounds.

First, what is it that makes you consider this strop 'very good quality?' Did it have a very pretty wooden paddle and come pre-loaded with compound?

Next, what was the last grit size of the stone that you used before going to the strop? Did you check the apex with a loupe and and a Sharpie before you made the switch to the strop to be sure that your stone work was actually making a proper edge?

Stitchawl

rutcrazed · Mar 12, 2015

Those are all very good questions Stich.....

630skirmish · Mar 12, 2015

dalefuller said:
How sharp are your knives before you switch to the strops? What do you use to do the initial sharpening? In most cases, stropping is used to refine an already sharp edge. It will take some of the toothiness off of an edge by polishing the edge and making it smoother. If the edge isn't already sharp, stropping can make it seem duller. It sounds like that may be the case here.

I prefer diamond spray or compound to the green Cr02 or other pastes. I've used grey, green, and white compounds and I just have better results with diamond compounds. But I do take care of the initial sharpening with a Sharpmaker or benchstones before I go to the strops. Make sure you have an edge that's ready for refining before you switch to your strops.

Are you saying there is diamond compound as well as spray? My edges are sharp, not the absolute best but pretty darn good. I find my edges cut well before stropping and then just dont cut after stropping. I edited my OP to reflect the questions you guys are asking.

630skirmish · Mar 12, 2015

This strop has a lot of good reviews and its done well, no doubt so I think it has to do with the compounds. I use DMT Diamond course then ultra fine, I skip fine since it tend to not do anything.

BellaBlades · Mar 12, 2015

I only use the black compound and then the green. With that I achieve a perfect the edge. The black cuts better.
And believe me the fine DMT does make a huge difference after the Coarse.
When I do a new edge I go from coarse to fine, then the ceramics. Followed by the strop.

Also, I have used the strop man set up for a while now and it works fine on every steel out there. With the exception of ZDP, as I have never used that stuff.

Obsessed with Edges · Mar 12, 2015

630skirmish said:
I bought a strop which is a very good quality one and its loaded with green and white compounds. Its just not really doing what I thought it would, my knives just seem to loose a lot of bite and become somewhat dull. I am not rolling the edge with extreme angels and have the proper technique so is it the compounds that are the problem? I have heard that these compounds dont do much for steels like Z-wear or s35vn etc so would diamond spray be my solution?

Edit: I use DMT diamond stones, 1 course and 1 Ultra fine. I can slice through paper and other mediums easily though I still have much room for improvement with my edge.
I use a StropMan Compact HD strop with green and white compound.

The more refined the edge is coming off the stones, the easier it'll be to gently refine it on the strop. I'd still suggest trying a compound better-suited to the steel, with it's vanadium carbides; diamond works much better for that. But, if the edge coming off the EF diamond hone is as good as it can be, light stropping on most anything will at least get rid of the ragged remnants and burrs, without rounding off the apex; that is what'll eventually happen with compounds that don't abrade the vanadium carbides well, and instead burnish the edge without thinning it (that's why the edge is losing bite). The green compound in particular will not be very effective at all, and the white might work more aggressively, at least on the matrix steel (excluding the carbides). Neither compound will do a good job thinning or polishing the vanadium carbides at the edge.

Focus on getting the edge as wicked-sharp as possible from the EF diamond. For that matter, it won't hurt to work towards that goal with the coarse diamond as well, before going to the EF; it's amazing what the coarse DMT can do by itself, as technique improves (lighten pressure as you near the apex, then lighten it even more as you refine it with each honing step). Stropping gets a LOT easier, the more refined the edge is coming off the stones.

David

gadgetgeek · Mar 13, 2015

It is pretty easy to be relying on the "tooth" of an edge rather than the apex, especially with diamond stones in my experience. If you are getting a good edge (verified by sharpie) then it could be that your total angle is too thick to work well with a polished edge?
I had a knife that just would not take a sharp "edge" off of compound, and what I found was that even though I was being careful, I was rounding the edge and polishing the apex away. It seemed that the edge I had been getting was mostly due to a wire edge that I had been keeping very straight. But with that knife I was using a very fine ceramic, not a diamond.

I've always thought that a compound that wasn't suitable to a steel was just not going to do much of anything, rather than dull it. But perhaps I'm wrong on that.

Bludgeon · Mar 13, 2015

How much pressure are you applying while stropping, op?

630skirmish · Mar 20, 2015

Ok guys I bought a new strop and it will be here shortly, they maker of this strop recommended a black and then green compound. What are some good option that are high quality?

Obsessed with Edges · Mar 20, 2015

630skirmish said:
Ok guys I bought a new strop and it will be here shortly, they maker of this strop recommended a black and then green compound. What are some good option that are high quality?

'Black' compounds are pretty generic, though widely variable in grit size & aggressiveness; usually aluminum oxide (also called 'emery' or 'corundum' at times; same thing). May or may not be useful for cleaning up burrs. Green compound (chromium oxide) won't likely do nearly as much good, as it won't handle the steel's vanadium carbides at refining steps (polishing, etc). Both black and green compounds are less-hard than the vanadium carbides, which means neither will abrade or refine them. For the S35VN steel, I'd recommend a diamond compound instead.

David

dalefuller · Mar 21, 2015

I agree with David. I'd go with a diamond compound on your new strop. I've used black and green compounds from different sources and have not had nearly the performance from them that I get from DMT's diamond compounds.