Stropping compound question

J

Jason Puckett

Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
204
So I think I've gotten to the point with my KME that I'm not going to get any sharper without stropping. I'm considering picking up strops but I'm not sure if I need compound or not. I currently use 140-1500 (100 if I need re-profiling) then 9 and 6 micron films. I get an acceptable level of polish, and they're sharp, but I want to get them just that liiiiiiitle bit sharper. My understanding is the compound just polishes, right? It refines as opposed to sharpens. If I'm just looking to get the edges that liiiiiitle bit sharper, do I really need compound?

If I DO need compound, what microns would work into what I have and what should be the progression?
 
Jason Puckett said:
So I think I've gotten to the point with my KME that I'm not going to get any sharper without stropping. I'm considering picking up strops but I'm not sure if I need compound or not. I currently use 140-1500 (100 if I need re-profiling) then 9 and 6 micron films. I get an acceptable level of polish, and they're sharp, but I want to get them just that liiiiiiitle bit sharper. My understanding is the compound just polishes, right? It refines as opposed to sharpens. If I'm just looking to get the edges that liiiiiitle bit sharper, do I really need compound?

If I DO need compound, what microns would work into what I have and what should be the progression?
Click to expand...
Hi,

How are you measuring sharpness?
What are your last 20 strokes on the KME exactly (how are you removing burr)?



What do you mean by "just polishes" and "refines as opposed to sharpens" and "acceptable level of polish"?
Big scratches or little scratches , scratches are scratches :)
 
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Currently I can get all of my knives to push cut through receipt paper or phone book paper so they're pretty sharp. I deburr with edgeward strokes before I start aligning my pattern. In regards to the compound, my understanding is that the act of stropping in and of itself removes that last little bit of a burr or wire edge that might still be there, but the compound serves no purpose in that regard. It just refines the scratch pattern, assuming you use one finer than your previous stone/film. I might be wrong about that, though, that's why I'm asking. If compound just serves to improve the polish and doesn't help with the actual refinement of the edge, then all I need is a strop, I'm happy with the polish I get.
 
Jason Puckett said:
Currently I can get all of my knives to push cut through receipt paper or phone book paper so they're pretty sharp.
Click to expand...
Hi
Nice. :thumbsup:

How will you notice if they get sharper?
Push cut through cigarette papers?
Hanging Hair Test?
Cut thread on a scale?


Jason Puckett said:
In regards to the compound, my understanding is that the act of stropping in and of itself removes that last little bit of a burr or wire edge that might still be there, but the compound serves no purpose in that regard. It just refines the scratch pattern, assuming you use one finer than your previous stone/film. I might be wrong about that, though, that's why I'm asking. If compound just serves to improve the polish and doesn't help with the actual refinement of the edge, then all I need is a strop, I'm happy with the polish I get.
Click to expand...
Hi,
If you're happy with the size of the scratches you don't need compound
And
Maybe you don't even need a strop :)

I suggest you look around your desk
and try stropping on printer paper, newspaper, jeans or belt,
either freehand or attached to your kme stones,
and see if you can notice a change in sharpness.

If your blades get sharper, review your last steps before stropping (see below).

If you cut into wood a few times, does push cutting paper get worse?


Scratches beat microchipping for material removal, and you dont need strops to scratch, or fancy leathers for microchipping ...and you dont need to start reading through this reading list The Mystery Of Why Stropping Can Sharpen Or Dull Your Knife


Jason Puckett said:
I deburr with edgeward strokes before I start aligning my pattern.
Click to expand...
Hi,
What does that mean exactly?

I can figure edgeward to mean edge into/leading,
and you're making all the scratches go in same direction?

Your last 20 strokes, are they alternating?
Are they ultra lightweight?
Are 1-2 ultra ultra lightweight strokes at elevated angle?
Followed by 1-2 strokes at original angle?
 
I haven't tried cutting wood or anything, that makes sense since that would remove any theoretical wire edge, right?

To remove the burr I just do short strokes toward the spine (edit: originally said edge, but then realized I was backwards. I push the hone toward the clamp). only. Then once I can't detect a burr on either side, to align the scratch pattern I alternate 10-10-9-9, etc going from heel to tip and toward the edge in a single long stroke.
 
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You can sharpen or just refine the edge depending on compound and stropping action and media. Removing the wire edge is mostly a function of the stropping action, regardless (for the most part) of the stropping media. If you have high carbon steel knives, maybe just a white compound from Bark River will do to take to next level of sharpness. If you have supersteels, maybe a 1 or .5 micron diamond compound would take to to next level.
 
Jason Puckett said:
I haven't tried cutting wood or anything, that makes sense since that would remove any theoretical wire edge, right?
Click to expand...
It might in some cases,
but
The idea behind it is it should smash/fold over any burr,
which should then be easier to detect,
for example by shaving hair only on one side
...
tells you if your deburring steps could use adjustment

Jason Puckett said:
To remove the burr I just do short strokes toward the spine (edit: originally said edge, but then realized I was backwards. I push the hone toward the clamp). only. Then once I can't detect a burr on either side, to align the scratch pattern I alternate 10-10-9-9, etc going from heel to tip and toward the edge in a single long stroke.
Click to expand...
Hi,
you're using lube right ( water or .. )?

Try bumping the angle a hair for your last 4 strokes
Or try doing only 4 strokes total after deburring (1 flip 1 flip 1 flip 1 )
 
Don't use diamond lapping films you couldn't waste your more if you tried for the cost of those thing's and when compared to how long they last your really getting screwed over.

Get some MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard)and cut it 1 inch wide by whatever long you need to fit the KME and you may need to be the thicker stuff or glue 2 peace's together,you can also use Ash Oak or Balsa wood and you can get the Balsa wood in a hard version as well.

I use MDF and Ash and with both I can even use a push pull motion to strop as well.

I buy Diamond Paste from a guy out of the Ukraine that is very high quality and you can get it in different concentrations of diamond,most of your finer grit diamond paste's are 4 Carat as the standard concentration,the next is 10 Carat and the highest is 20 Carat.

You can get .25,.5,1/0,2/1,3/2, in 4 10 and 20 Carat formulations,the cost for the 10 Carat stuff is around 23 bucks for a 40 gram bottle and the 20 carat isn't much more,if you want to find out more I'm putting his email in this post below,I have ordered from him a few time's and he is a good honest seller and he use's PayPal as well so your protected.

He has oil base and water based diamond paste's as well and I use the oil.

michael.lug@gmail.com

I have a pdf chart that shows all the grit's he sell's and if you want me to email it to you or anyone else reading this my email is wadenorton2008@yahoo.ca


Jason Puckett said:
So I think I've gotten to the point with my KME that I'm not going to get any sharper without stropping. I'm considering picking up strops but I'm not sure if I need compound or not. I currently use 140-1500 (100 if I need re-profiling) then 9 and 6 micron films. I get an acceptable level of polish, and they're sharp, but I want to get them just that liiiiiiitle bit sharper. My understanding is the compound just polishes, right? It refines as opposed to sharpens. If I'm just looking to get the edges that liiiiiitle bit sharper, do I really need compound?

If I DO need compound, what microns would work into what I have and what should be the progression?
Click to expand...
 
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Interesting that you mentioned shaving only on one side. The latest knife I got and sharpened was a Spydie Smock and it was what prompted this thread. I sharpened it the other night and while it was sharp, I could tell there was some resistance when cutting paper. It just didn't *feel* as sharp when cutting as some of my other knives. So at work today I cut into a little scrap block of wood that was on my desk and pulled it through it to try to flatten any burr or wire edge. It seemed sharper on paper, but I just tried shaving arm hair with it and while one side does indeed shave quite well, the other side doesn't appear to at all. So that means I still have a burr on that side, right? I can't feel it, but I know I had a similar problem on the first knife I did on my KME. I plan on re-profiling it down to 17 dps, I tried following the factory bevel the other night and had a real problem with it, I couldn't quite find the exact angle so I settled for close enough. I didn't have enough time to put into a complete re-profile but wanted to put my own edge on it.

I use my stones dry, but use mineral oil on my lapping films. I've not seen that the oil helps on the stones in any significant way, other than possibly keeping them cleaner. Is four strokes enough to really align the scratch pattern? I know a mirror edge isn't necessary for it to be sharp, but it looks nice and I'm vain enough that I like it.
 
Jason Puckett said:
Interesting ...So that means I still have a burr on that side, right? I can't feel it..... Is four strokes enough to really align the scratch pattern?
Click to expand...
Hi,
Yes, blade shaves on only one side, burr is still there.

The four strokes is more about not re-creating a burr after removing the burr first
 
If you buy just straight diamond powder there a few problems your going to run into.

The first is there are a lot of retailers of diamond powder that don't about the consistency of the product,by that I mean how well the diamonds are separated,for example a 2/1 means it's a 2 Micron diamond paste and the biggest diamond in that diamond paste will be 2 micron and the smallest will be 1 micron and there will be a very small percentage of 1 micron diamonds in it as well.

The next problem is trying to mix it,the problem is to stir it by hand your never going to get it the diamonds mixed threw evenly.
From what I have been told by others who sell diamond paste from the Ukraine they use a special process to spread out the diamonds and then they mix it.

You could buy diamond powder from ebay and add it to an emulsion but I never really liked the idea of using an emulsion because it is just a liquid and you spray it on or you use a bottle and shake it up spread it around and then you let it dry but what's holding the diamonds in place so they don't fall off the strop and that's why I like diamond paste's better and I will admit I could be wrong in my thinking but to me t makes more sense to use a paste.

When you look at the cost of other diamond emulsions and paste's then compare what you pay for a 10 or 20 carat diamond paste in the finer grit's it a pretty good deal if you ask me plus the a 40 gram container is going to last you a really long.
 
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