Stropping Compound Results

[c7m2p3]

I have a few syringes of diamond past raging from .1 micron to 3 microns as well as a regular green compound block. After getting into more "super steels" such as M390, CPM M4, S35VN, 20CV I had thought I would need to turn to the diamond pasts for stropping. However, recently after working on some 20CV with my diamond KME set, I decided to try and finish on a regular leather paddle strop loaded with common green compound and was surprised at the results.

I found that the edge was cutting very aggressively and given all that I have read here on carbide tear out and the necessity of diamond paste or spray for these high end steels I was surprised. I'm basically just interested to see if anyone else has had a similar experience and if the carbide tear out idea is kind of overblown when it comes to stropping on normal compound. Would certainly save a lot of money as Diamond paste is several times as expensive in my experience than typical green compound bars.

 

[wade7575]

With 20CV and M390 they have vanadium carbides in them but they don't seem to be affected the same way S110V is and others if you were to sharpen them with water stones,I haven't tried green compound on 20CV or M390 but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't strop up ok with green compound.

I find with some super steels that if you use a Chosera stone in higher grit's that you don't need to strop depending on the steel.

 

[c7m2p3]

With 20CV and M390 they have vanadium carbides in them but they don't seem to be affected the same way S110V is and others if you were to sharpen them with water stones,I haven't tried green compound on 20CV or M390 but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't strop up ok with green compound.

I find with some super steels that if you use a Chosera stone in higher grit's that you don't need to strop depending on the steel.

I have also read quite a bit here on people either turning away from stropping altogether with very hard steel or moving more to finishing on ceramic. I have never been able to remove the burr with this method though. On my KME it feels like no matter how many times I flip the blade over I seem to just keep pushing the burr back and forth with the 1500 grit diamond stone. Only when i take it out of the clamp and go to the strop can i get the edge to start popping hairs.
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[wade7575]

Once you start getting into higher grit stones there shouldn't be any burr left on the edge,the best way to get rid of a burr with a stone is to use leading edge pass's only.

When you use leading edge pass's you want the side of the edge with the burr to be up and then start doing leading edge pass's,the idea is that the leading edge only strokes cause's the stone to grab the burr and tear it off.

When you strop it's not to remove the so much as it is to refine the edge a bit more,you can try denim blue jean material glued to wood or n aluminum blank and try it bare or with green compound on it to help remove any wire burr's,the idea is that the blue jean material will let the wire burr's hook up in there and tear off.

I used to have a KME now I have a TSProf K03 and another way to remove a stubborn burr once you have gotten to a 1K stone or a 3K is to simply raise your sharpening angle 1 tenth of a degree and do a few pass's then lower the stone back down to the original angle,I know with a KME that's going to be a bit harder to do and if you decide to get another sharpener I would look at a K03 or a Hapstone,the Hapstones are cheaper I think they also have a micro adjuster or you can buy one as an add on part.

I have had the KME Gold Series stones and they are really good stones,if you want to get some stones that I think you will like a lot more and they don't raise a burr as much as the KME stones try the Venev stones for the KME system you don't have to buy a full set either you could buy just the 400 800 and 1200 in 100% concentration,the Venev stones give you a toothy and polished edge affect,I like the Venev stones better then other stones I have used to date when it comes to diamond stones.

https://www.gritomatic.com/products...s-diamond-for-kme?_pos=1&_sid=fa56ba923&_ss=r

 

[wade7575]

C c7m2p3 Do you live in Canada,the reason I ask is because your username is the same format as a Canadian Postal Code,your user name goes letter number letter then number letter number which is the same format as a postal code in Canada.

 

[c7m2p3]

C c7m2p3 Do you live in Canada,the reason I ask is because your username is the same format as a Canadian Postal Code,your user name goes letter number letter then number letter number which is the same format as a postal code in Canada.

No I am in the US. That format is just a combination of initials and numbers with significant meaning I had no idea that it was in the format of a Canadian postal code but good to know

Back to sharpening- I have been using the gold series KME Diamond set that comes with the 140 grit, 300 grit, 600 grit, and 1500 grit diamond stones. Using a loupe and sharpie in conjunction I know that I am apexing on the 600 and 1500 and i can feel the burr flipping back and forth. I even got the kangaroo strop set up for the KME to maintain the same angle while stropping and that doesnt seem to do the job. The best edges have been coming off the 1500 and going to a slightly more obtuse angle on a cowhide leader paddle strop loaded with regular, nothing special green compound.

Which i thought was odd given the price and praise that diamond paste has gotten on this forum and i havent been able to get the same results out of any of those grits that i have with run of the mill green compound.

 

[wade7575]

If you get an angle cube and also glue a peace of magnetic metal to the stone holder for the KME try just changing the angle by 1 tenth of a degree,also the KME Gold Series stone are just a diamond plate and I have found that they don't always remove burr's the best but the Venev stone seem to remove the burr very well because of the resin.

 

[c7m2p3]

If you get an angle cube and also glue a peace of magnetic metal to the stone holder for the KME try just changing the angle by 1 tenth of a degree,also the KME Gold Series stone are just a diamond plate and I have found that they don't always remove burr's the best but the Venev stone seem to remove the burr very well because of the resin.

Great maybe I will go ahead and get some Venev stones. Those should still be able to cut 20CV and M4 correct?

 

[wade7575]

The Venev stones will cut anything you can throw at them,just be sure to order the 100% concentration ones from the link above I posted earlier,there is a 25% and 100% button beside each stone and just be sure to click the 100% tab by side the stone you want before adding it to your cart and you can also revue the he stones in your cart before paying to make sure they are right.

 

[115Italian]

I always assumed that strop paste and compound was more for polishing the edge visually. Not saying it can’t aid in the stropping affect. I’ve always found that stropping on dry leather did work well to smooth out and realign an edge all by itself.

 

[c7m2p3]

I always assumed that strop paste and compound was more for polishing the edge visually. Not saying it can’t aid in the stropping affect. I’ve always found that stropping on dry leather did work well to smooth out and realign an edge all by itself.

I could be wrong but with harder steel, I had heard and assumed that polishing and honing the very apex of the edge would require something hard such as the compound or diamond impregnated paste to work on very hard steel.

 

[sickpuppy1]

Diamond compounds most definitely aid in sharpening. And it may be that I have micro burrs that it’s taking off, but cuts noticeably better after the diamond compound and plain leather adds smoothing and polish.

 

[wade7575]

I always assumed that strop paste and compound was more for polishing the edge visually. Not saying it can’t aid in the stropping affect. I’ve always found that stropping on dry leather did work well to smooth out and realign an edge all by itself.

Stropping for sure help's in adding more sharpness to the edge and not just for polishing the edge,I find emulsion's are normally the best for aiding in give more sharpness to the edge over diamond paste's.

A friend of mine on facebook who does a lot of sharpening is going to be selling his own emulsion's soon and these won't be some homebrewed nonsense that was brewed up in some guys bathtub,his stuff is made by a company that has been making emulsion's for a very longtime ad they also filter the diamond a lot better and they also use deionized diamonds as well.

They use deionized diamonds because with smaller particle size's the diamonds tend to stick on clump together and that's what happened to the Venev 2000 grit stone because dezionized diamonds were not used,I will be testing his final version of his emulsion in a few weeks when it get's to me,I already tried some of his .25 in a lower concentration and I will be getting 1 micron that has double the amount of concentration that the .25 had,I just got to try his sample batch's that he ordered in to figure where he wanted the concentration at.

He will be carrying a full line of emulsion's down the road.

 

[c7m2p3]

Stropping for sure help's in adding more sharpness to the edge and not just for polishing the edge,I find emulsion's are normally the best for aiding in give more sharpness to the edge over diamond paste's.

A friend of mine on facebook who does a lot of sharpening is going to be selling his own emulsion's soon and these won't be some homebrewed nonsense that was brewed up in some guys bathtub,his stuff is made by a company that has been making emulsion's for a very longtime ad they also filter the diamond a lot better and they also use deionized diamonds as well.

They use deionized diamonds because with smaller particle size's the diamonds tend to stick on clump together and that's what happened to the Venev 2000 grit stone because dezionized diamonds were not used,I will be testing his final version of his emulsion in a few weeks when it get's to me,I already tried some of his .25 in a lower concentration and I will be getting 1 micron that has double the amount of concentration that the .25 had,I just got to try his sample batch's that he ordered in to figure where he wanted the concentration at.

He will be carrying a full line of emulsion's down the road.

Very interesting. Looking forward to hearing the results. If it is noticably better than diamond paste I may have to switch over to that at least fore my more pricy blades and reserve the pastes for the large strop used for fixed blades.

 

[wade7575]

I used to use the stuff made by Ken Schwartz but I find the last few times I got it it didn't cut as well,from what a few people have told me about my friends stuff in .25 in the higher concentration that he will be selling have said that it cut's fast and also polish's well and give's good bite to the edge.

The problems with a lot of emulsion's is that the diamond's tend to clump and there a few problems with that,the first is that it can leave bigger scratch's and the second is that if the diamond's are clump's together they won't into the groove's that the stone made when you sharpened to refine that area.

One that is for sure if my friends emulsion suck's I'll be the first to say so and he knows that about me if I don't like a product I don't care selling and if they are going to get offended I'm going to tell you what I think if you like it or not.

 

[sickpuppy1]

northwest knife guy sells emulsions. I have a 3 micron and a 1.5 micron . Both work very well. I do have paste in a few sizes. The biggest pain in pastes to me is getting them spread out, Yes. they will clump if not spread properly. If has to be more or less worked into the leather. emulsions are so much easier to even out. But again it has to be even. less is better in a way...

 

[David Mary]

I have completely abandoned compounds. In my limited experience with them, I found they didn't add enough performance or longevity for me to spend the time with them, and they also had a tendency to leave a residue on my edges. It's entirely possible I was doing something wrong. I am not an expert sharpener, nor do I go to a high polish, but I bring by edges to a toothy coarse finish, and when I strop, I do so on bare leather. This gets me an edge that slices an S shape in paper and shaves hair off my arm. That's enough for me.

C c7m2p3 Do you live in Canada, the reason I ask is because your username is the same format as a Canadian Postal Code, your user name goes letter number letter then number letter number which is the same format as a postal code in Canada.

No I am in the US. That format is just a combination of initials and numbers with significant meaning I had no idea that it was in the format of a Canadian postal code but good to know

It's also one of 16828 protein sequences in TrEMBL, and a maps.myindia.com address for a hotel.

https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/C7M2P3

C7M2P3

 

[wootzblade]

We need diamonds to sharpen high-vanadium steels.
However, for more aggressive cut some do finishing on a strop with a "regular" polishing compound to make the vanadium carbides stand out of the steel matrix.

 

[wade7575]

I have completely abandoned compounds. In my limited experience with them, I found they didn't add enough performance or longevity for me to spend the time with them, and they also had a tendency to leave a residue on my edges. It's entirely possible I was doing something wrong. I am not an expert sharpener, nor do I go to a high polish, but I bring by edges to a toothy coarse finish, and when I strop, I do so on bare leather. This gets me an edge that slices an S shape in paper and shaves hair off my arm. That's enough for me.





It's also one of 16828 protein sequences in TrEMBL, and a maps.myindia.com address for a hotel.

https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/C7M2P3

C7M2P3

I find that the biggest problem is that there aren't many good emulsion's out there and the few that are good and out there are hard to find.

I'm going to be testing some new emulsion that will be getting mailed to me in the next days and it is made by a company that does medical grade stuff and their process of filtering diamonds is extremely strict when compared to others from what I have been told,from the sample's that my friend has gotten so far that will be selling say's that it cut's very very fast.

The emulsion I'm going to be testing will hopefully add extra bite to some of my edge's,I have a 2K Metallic CBN that does a good job at giving me a good working edge but lacks that really sharp edge,I know I have tried Ken Schwartz's stuff in the past and it was great and now I don't have good result's with it,I also know of 2 people that say they think depending on who you are he sell's watered down emulsion because they found the same thing I did just didn't give any extra bite to the edge.

 

[c7m2p3]

I have completely abandoned compounds. In my limited experience with them, I found they didn't add enough performance or longevity for me to spend the time with them, and they also had a tendency to leave a residue on my edges. It's entirely possible I was doing something wrong. I am not an expert sharpener, nor do I go to a high polish, but I bring by edges to a toothy coarse finish, and when I strop, I do so on bare leather. This gets me an edge that slices an S shape in paper and shaves hair off my arm. That's enough for me.





It's also one of 16828 protein sequences in TrEMBL, and a maps.myindia.com address for a hotel.

https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/C7M2P3

C7M2P3

I get compound on the edge as well though it is usually fairly easy to remove with a rag or a quick rinse. I also don't tend to go for an incredible polish either just mainly looking for cutting performance and most of my blades are pretty close to polished anyways coming off of the 1500 grit diamond. Maybe I will try and grab a new strop and never load anything on there and see how that does. What steels are you doing this with? I tend to work with M4, 20CV, S30V and S35VN which I had thought would need at least some type of compound/diamond/emulsion to successfully strop. If you are able to remove the burr and hone an edge just with bare leather that would certainly save some time and money in the long run.