stropping on a steel ?

bradlox

bradlox

Joined
Aug 1, 2009
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hey bf , just interested if anyone else has tried or regularly strops on a chef steel ?
İ have always freehand sharpened and I'm generally happy with my results I freehand all my blades from tools to straight razors .

I tend not to stick to one style / method of sharpening every edge is different IMO .

anyways recently I was having a little trouble getting my leather-craft finishing knife (basically a scalpel but thicker) to the laser sharpness I was after .

so I tried some stropping passes , and to my surprise it worked really really well .

I've not yet tried this one any larger blades but just thought i'd share this out of interest .

cheers







ı
 
It can work extremely well, but has its limitations like anything else. I found it worked best to use leading passes at maybe a degree or so higher than the original grind angle. Over the long haul I found it a bit too fussy for me, but it has a well-proven track record.

I still do use this from time to time, mostly for expedient sharpening, going from a medium or coarse edge to something a whole lot more keen very quickly. It does seem to work best if there's some grind texture/scratch pattern to work with, this allows the edge steel to flow a bit without being drawn out. At about 6k-8k JiS the effect begins to taper off IMHO, so not much of an improvement on brightly polished edges compared to something ground with more texture. Also helps if the RC of the edge steel is not too high, mid 50s or so.

A bit more info from a few years back you might find interesting:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...e-look-at-steeling?highlight=quick+close+look

Another interesting note - surface burnishing of machined parts has been used up to low and mid 60s RC, a bit higher than the conventional wisdom. In my own noodling I found the higher the RC and/or higher carbide the steel, the closer one needs to match the 'steeling' angle to the original grind angle to avoid carbide displacement, edge fracturing, drawing the edge steel out into a wire.

I used this on a number of tools, including machetes, grass hooks etc.
 
Hey thanks for the info and the link , just tried it today on a high carbon friction folder with great results .
 
The more you do it, the better you'll get, and likely begin to get a better idea of when it isn't working for a give application. It can only be done a few times before the edge begins to draw out, the more coarse the edge to begin with, the more times it can be used (generally). As mentioned, I most often use this method for expedient sharpening in the kitchen or at work. In the kitchen I'll touch up the edge on the unglazed underside of a coffee mug, then flip it and make a few passes on the glazed rim at slightly higher angle.
 
By stropping do you mean pulling toward you with the edge facing away? No experience with that.

I've recently been playing around with a chef's steel. I go the opposite way, with the edge pushing into the steel. I start at a shallow angle and steepen until I begin to feel the steel gripping. I am only doing this where I see reflection on the blade, as an alternative to sharpening the whole edge. It does seem to be of benefit.
 
I once used a grooved steel on a knife when on vacation - the edge was butterknife dull and I was in a hurry, so didn't go easy on it. Just like a file I used a bunch of force till I felt it cut through the glazed surface and begin catching. Then dialed it back and honed away. Raised a burr that I then had to elevate the spine to cut off. Edge could just shave some arm hair.

Years ago I used to use a grooved steel religiously on my kitchen knives. Once on a sunny day with light streaming in the window backlighting the knife and steel, I could actually see what appeared to be fine steel dust coming off the edge.

There's a huge difference between a grooved steel and a smooth one in terms of how they function, totally different mechanism.
 
At the shop I work at, there's tons of scrap metal for me to mess with, and I found aluminum rods work really well as a strop.
 
postoak said:
By stropping do you mean pulling toward you with the edge facing away? No experience with that.

I've recently been playing around with a chef's steel. I go the opposite way, with the edge pushing into the steel. I start at a shallow angle and steepen until I begin to feel the steel gripping. I am only doing this where I see reflection on the blade, as an alternative to sharpening the whole edge. It does seem to be of benefit.
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Yes leading away from the edge , normally I steel my kitchen knives toward the edge (except for my san mai blade , I strop that on a leather bench strop and tomatos tremble lol ! )
 
Play around with it, but personally I wouldn't steel away from the edge. The process of plastic deformation flowing out into space instead of using the existing geometry as a foundation could lead to edge failure, drawing out to a wire etc. Even with a grooved steel being used as a file, you'll get a better outcome moving into the edge - less burring, less tendency of the edge to roll.
 
I have several knife sharpening steels made the F. Dick Co of Germany. I have one of their steels that actually does abrade to a small degree>> it's called the F. Dick "MULTICUT" steel. I've used it in the field with some interesting results. Now I've been told by guys in the meat cutting industry which is who uses knife sharpening steels a lot that most steels do what's known as a "burnishing" effect on a knife edge. But I do know with the proper angle and skewing in the proper method that you can get some decent results.

I've yet to find better quality blade sharpening steels than the ones made by F. Dick of Germany. I also have an F. Dick "POLIRON" steel which is a completely smooth model which seems to re-align the edge on a fixed blade knife>> I find it works well on most carbon steels.
 
the steel I'm using is a vintage made in Germany and is quite smooth it definitely produces the burnishing effect . I use card scrapers for my woodworking that require a burnishing process for sharpening , might interesting and cross paths on this subject .
 
sharpening steels made the F. Dick Co of Germany
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That struck a cord. I remembered seeing Germany on mine. I don't see any other I.D. on it . . . but the pocket clip has a cool patina on it so it's cool right ? :confused: :D
I've had it for ever. I bought it because I thought it looked old and classic and I wanted to learn how to use a steel.
Recently I put it in my EDC ITTESTR (in-the-trenches-emergency-sharpening-tool–roll).
I always want it to work better than it does. I suppose I am too unwilling to get way up on the edge angle or I don't know what. Give me a stone instead any day.
It's sorta good for unfolding a rolled over edge on say a box knife and stuff.





As I always say "But it looks good for the photo shoot".
 
HeavyHanded said:
Also helps if the RC of the edge steel is not too high, mid 50s or so.

A bit more info from a few years back you might find interesting:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...e-look-at-steeling?highlight=quick+close+look

Another interesting note - surface burnishing of machined parts has been used up to low and mid 60s RC, a bit higher than the conventional wisdom. In my own noodling I found the higher the RC and/or higher carbide the steel, the closer one needs to match the 'steeling' angle to the original grind angle to avoid carbide displacement, edge fracturing, drawing the edge steel out into a wire.
.
Click to expand...

Extremely interesting stuff. Like to where I'm posting so I'll come back to read it again.

I use a steel a lot on carbon steel and things like 12C27. I've found that on things like even 8cr13mov they don't work as well. My SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) was that it had to do with the malleability/brittleness of the blade steel more than the RC (although those are related).

HeavyHanded said:
I found the higher the RC and/or higher carbide the steel, the closer one needs to match the 'steeling' angle to the original grind angle to avoid carbide displacement, edge fracturing, drawing the edge steel out into a wire.
.
Click to expand...

So I'll play with that.

I steel my carbon steel kitchen knives after each use for a few passes and they go long between sharpenings.

They threw out some smooth carbide rod at my previous employer and I snatched it of course. I had a USA Schrade (carbon) which was pitted near the edge and I rubbed one of those assiduously near the edge attempting to fill them and re-shape the metal around them through burnishing. It seemed to work rather well.

I use a ceramic rod on more brittle stuff. Apparently you have to match the angle of a ceramic near perfectly to the edge of even more high carbide steel like D2 to avoid
HeavyHanded said:
carbide displacement, edge fracturing,
.
Click to expand...

Good stuff.
 
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I've watched many meat cutter swipe their blades on a steel. Some forcefully bang away on it, others give their blade a few light swipes. My experience has been that after 2 sessions of blade swiping on the steel, I don't notice much improvement with the edge. I think stropping on slurry would net more gain. But a meat cutter doesn't have the time to take a blade to a stone and sharpen it until (maybe) lunch time. So, steel his blade is his option. He's trying to make it thru his shift. DM
 
I just 'steeled' some kitchen knives (guessing low-mid 50 HRC) on the spine of my Cara Cara 2. Worked quite well as the user wouldn't want face shaving edge. Mostly aligning the rolled edge from using it on plates.
 
I use an old frank dick steel for this. The good thing about it is you can use whatever grit sandpaper you want to rough up the steel to your desired level and it works like a champ
 
But a meat cutter doesn't have the time to take a blade to a stone and sharpen it until (maybe) lunch time. So, steel his blade is his option. He's trying to make it thru his shift.
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you are probably right of course but I think it is pathetic and comical at the same time that in our rushy rushy society that a professional knife user isn't allowed time to sharpen his knife.

PS: it just occurred that he / she should just have a quiver of knives if that is the reality. Like when I woodwork I have a stack of blades and just trade out.

These blades are A-2 they would just laugh at the sharpening steel and then gobble it up as a snack.



 
Most meat cutters have a aluminum slotted sheath for carrying their knives. If prepared they will have in it a 6" boning blade, a 8-9" breaking blade (now called a carver) and a 7" slicer. Mostly Victorinox brand. Heat treated to 55-56 RC. These will sharpen up quick on a Norton India stone in 10 minutes. Rarely do I see them taking a blade to their stone. A 313 Tri-Hone. They work at a hurried pace. DM
 
I did some experimenting with steeling some years ago. I didn't (and don't) have a steel handy, but I did find the spine of my chef's knife was a fine substitute. I could steel knives several times before they lost the ability to regain an arm shaving edge. I did it a couple days ago on a Tojiro Petty, a Japanese paring/utility knife with quite hard steel compared to most western style kitchen knives. Returned it to an arm shaving edge. Previously it was sharpened on a 4000 grit water stone. My point with this ramble is that the first pass on each side with the "steel" is edge trailing, followed by no more than 4 or 5 passes per side edge leading. More than that and I go back to the stone. I started doing this after thinking a rolled edge would just get folded against the side, and I wanted to stand up the edge, not flatten it and form a new edge with fully folded steel.
 
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