Stropping reduces toothiness?

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Frznrth

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Jan 3, 2021
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Hi
As you can tell I’ve lots to learn. I’ve been reading about stropping. Some say that it smooths out the toothiness of an edge. If your shaving or doing ridiculous fine sushi cuts this sounds good but for normal everyday kitchen cutting don’t you want an edge with some toothiness?

Do certain stropping materials or compound micron levels leave a nice general purpose toothy edge? (For a carbon knife specifically). Would stropping on a 3k stone have a different effect that stropping on leather?

Thanks for the education.
 
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Frzn, yes it doesn't take much stopping to remove most all the toothiness from a edge. Now, stopping on a stone wouldn't be as bad. DM
 
I tend to minimize stropping with any compounds, mainly because I prefer to keep the finish as it was produced on the stone. Most of my daily-carry knives are finished to something around 320-600 grit (India 'Fine' to DMT 'Fine', for example), and I really like the toothy aggressiveness in those edges, coming straight off the stone. I do sometimes 'strop' those on a plain piece of paper (NO compound) laid over the stone, only for the purpose of cleaning up loose fragments of burrs and aligning any remaining rolling/leaning of the apex, after the stone work. I've found that using most any typical compound for stropping will will quickly reduce or eliminate most of that toothy bite, if I take it just a little too far. And that doesn't take much, to go too far.

For some limited uses though, as with some (but not all) of the kitchen knives I use, I sometimes like a high polish on thinly-convexed kitchen knives, which makes them beautifully effortless slicers & choppers of fruits & vegetables. And for thicker blades used for EDC tasks, a polished convex works great for cutting up cardboard. For these, stropping on hard-backed denim with a fast-polishing compound works very well.

All that being said, if your edge finish is already polished or very fine, there are methods to increase the toothy bite by stropping: mainly, in using very coarse compounds on very firm or hard backing (like hardwood, or paper over a stone, for example). Point being, a lot of this is relative, depending on where you're starting and what specific materials you're using for stropping purposes. Even a very coarse compound will tend to polish more than add bite, if the substrate is relatively soft or forgiving under the pressure of the blade (like leather, fabric or other soft materials). The yielding of the substrate under the compound will effectively make the coarse compound perform more like a polishing medium, as most of the bulk of the grit gets embedded below the surface of the substrate, leaving only small protrusions of the grit particle's edges or corners exposed.
 
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I find light steeling more effective on realigning an edge than stropping, particularly on so-called super steels with high carbide content. Stropping seems to diminish that "bite" of a freshly honed edge.
 
Stropping on a medium or coarse stone without creating a burr can only be accomplished reasonably on softer waterstones, and yes, it makes a very toothy edge.

At finer abrasive sizes, stropping on compound loaded paper over an irregular surface can make a fairly toothy edge. Stropping on plain paper can cause slight burnishing of the edge and make it cut more refined yet not polish off any teeth - this goes double for steeling with a smooth steel.

One can also apply compound to a piece of wood with a drop of oil and make a fairly toothy edge. Have to play around to see what works best for you.

Stropping on leather with compound will pretty much always smooth the teeth out.
 
Thanks for all the info. I’ve ordered a 1000/3000 Cerax. I’ll try this before running out to buy a strop. It just seemed that a strop would be easier to pull out to maintain an edge than a wet stone would be - do I need to soak a wet stone to strop on it or can I just give it a splash or even use it dry? Dry would be easy - even a quick splash wouldn’t be too troublesome.
 
I don't know how muddy a Cerax stone tends to get, but a little of the surface mud from the 3k smeared on the underside of a cutting board etc makes a good improvised stropping surface that will hold onto some tooth.
 
Good to know - I might give that a try to see what happens. Simple as possible daily maintenance is my main quest though.
 
Frznrth said:
Good to know - I might give that a try to see what happens. Simple as possible daily maintenance is my main quest though.
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If its a higher RC Japanese carbon steel then you'll need quality abrasives. If its a lower RC Sabatier or other Western knife I swear by the coffee cup/mixing bowl for daily maintenance. If it stops responding I'll take it back to a stone, but you can go a long time with simple means.

Harder steels whether carbon or stainless won't respond very well.

 
Thanks. The knife supposedly is “Shirogami #1“ - I don’t have it yet.

So if I want to try a strop I’d need a firm surface with good abrasive - Diamond? And if I want some toothiness use a very coarse one - how course?

Stropping in my stone may also work - but can I use it dry?

Someone else suggested using a light sharpening motion on a stone as maintenance. Could I do this on a dry wet stone?
 
Frznrth said:
Thanks. The knife supposedly is “Shirogami #1“ - I don’t have it yet.

So if I want to try a strop I’d need a firm surface with good abrasive - Diamond? And if I want some toothiness use a very coarse one - how course?

Stropping in my stone may also work - but can I use it dry?

Someone else suggested using a light sharpening motion on a stone as maintenance. Could I do this on a dry wet stone?
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That is probably going to be a bit higher RC than would be good for most stropping, though the waterstone grit on wood will still work well enough. You can use a waterstone dry but only for a handful of passes before it loads up.

Another approach is to lay in the grind with a 1k and microbevel with a much finer stone 6-8k. Just a few passes will substantially improve the pressure cutting character will still be a strong slicing edge. As it dulls, you take it back to the fine stone for a few passes. After about 4 tune ups you'll need to take it back to the 1k.

For your uses you might just be able to stop at the 1k and use the thing with an edge that will last a while with no tinkering. A lot depends on the usage and the steel combination.
 
Stropping in general does reduce toothiness as one of its main goals is not only to align, but to burnish/polish the edge. And the more strokes that you strop in the traditional way, the more you get that effect.

On kitchen knives I don't strop. It's not that stropping doesn't work, but due to the way my kitchen knives are used (high frequency usage with frequent impacts on cutting boards, causing micro-chipping, denting ,rolling, etc.), stropping them to maximum edge performance every time I need to maintain them is not the best return on my time. With these knives, they need to be maintained pretty often. And usually I don't need to get them 'hair whittling' sharp, I just need practical sharpness so that they'll easily do ordinary kitchen work like cleanly slicing tomatoes with very little pressure.

What I've been doing with my kitchen knives is gradually converting them to the same approach, regardless whether the blade grind is full convex or flat. I'll reprofile to a nice toothy 12-13 dps edge, using a combination of a coarse SiC stone (like a Norton Crystolon or a Manticore), and a 400-grit Arctic Fox to get a nice toothy edge. Then use a DMT 'ceramic steel' (like an ordinary kitchen steel, but a 1200 grit ceramic) with a 16 dps cone-shaped angle guide slipped over it, to do about 3 to 5 light strokes per side and cut a micro-bevel. Doing a small number of light strokes, avoids over-polishing the edge. Then when I want to maintain the edge, I just go back to the ceramic steel, and do a couple more passes to refresh the micro. After a while when the edge gets too dinged up, I go back to the bench stone to refresh the bevels and repair any damage.
 
Frznrth said:
Thanks. The knife supposedly is “Shirogami #1“ - I don’t have it yet.

So if I want to try a strop I’d need a firm surface with good abrasive - Diamond? And if I want some toothiness use a very coarse one - how course?

Stropping in my stone may also work - but can I use it dry?

Someone else suggested using a light sharpening motion on a stone as maintenance. Could I do this on a dry wet stone?
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If the toothiness you want to maintain is of such a character that you're considering using the stone itself as a strop, I'd just simplify it even further and just take the edge to the stone in normal sharpening fashion with a much, much more delicate touch, when you want to tune it up a bit. Whatever 'stropping' you might do afterward, just use a piece of plain paper over the stone to clean up the weakened bits of burrs left.

It does sound as if the particular steel you're considering may not respond as well to typical stropping anyway, if the hardness is very high, and especially if you're wanting to maintain more toothy bite, as opposed to polishing, for which a compounded strop could be more effective for that job. I'm seeing some knives made in this steel (shirogami #1) are hardened up to HRC 64-65, for example. If it's that hard, typical stropping as used with more mainstream steels at common hardness (mid-high 50s HRC) may not work nearly as well for what you're wanting to do with this steel.
 
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I’ll see what happens with the stone and will then bother you all again if needed.

I’m sure that if I can only make it even half as sharp as it could be it’s going to be so much sharper than all the junk I have now that I’ll still be more than happy.
Thanks for all your help.
 
From my experience stropping on cardboard, magazine, leather strop, wood and loaded leather strop does refine the edge quickly. But not on a stone as I have been using that method. DM
 
Frznrth said:
Thanks for all the info. I’ve ordered a 1000/3000 Cerax. I’ll try this before running out to buy a strop. It just seemed that a strop would be easier to pull out to maintain an edge than a wet stone would be - do I need to soak a wet stone to strop on it or can I just give it a splash or even use it dry? Dry would be easy - even a quick splash wouldn’t be too troublesome.
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You can do some stropping passes on a dry stone.
In general, when using a Cerax for regular sharpening you would soak it.
 
All good advice here. I just wanted to chip in and reiterate the point that the edge should match the intended application.

Shirogami #1 is a steel rather than a knife, I would imagine you have brought a gyuto or santoku? If so I would use that for everyday kitchen prep - mostly veggies. If so that would require a lot of push cutting and therefore I would put a polished edge on it. Your not going to be using it for cutting rope or breaking down large quantities of meat - things where a toothy edge would be more beneficial.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
If the toothiness you want to maintain is of such a character that you're considering using the stone itself as a strop, I'd just simplify it even further and just take the edge to the stone in normal sharpening fashion with a much, much more delicate touch, when you want to tune it up a bit. Whatever 'stropping' you might do afterward, just use a piece of plain paper over the stone to clean up the weakened bits of burrs left.
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I asked a similar question some months ago and got this same excellent advice from Obsessed with Edges. It has worked out very well for me. :thumbsup:

I usually use a DMT Double-Sided Diafold (Coarse/Extra Coarse) to touch up all my knife edges: kitchen, outdoor, and folders. This is a lightweight, compact, foldable diamond abrasive that I carry in my truck and pack for quick and easy touch ups of my knife edges no matter where I am. If I roll or chip an edge on a trip or in the wilderness, the coarser grits will handle the tougher jobs much better than finer grits (and definitely much better than a strop!) and the Diafolds can be used dry. For me, a C/EC Diafold is much more useful and versatile than a strop and is probably as simple and efficient as it gets for what I need, although there may be other similar sharpening tools on the market.
 
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