Stropping

J

jvan

Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
863
I just read in another thread that someone recommended stropping a 1660TIZDP Leek after using the Sharpmaker. The only recollection I have of stropping is barbers stropping their razors in the good old days. I would appreciate it if someone could describe the process as it pertains to pocket knives including what sort of strop is used and where they can be obtained.

Thanks in advance,

John
 
It generally means use a trailing motion when sharpening using leather or newsprint loaded with a very fine polishing abrasive.

-Cliff
 
moving-van.jpg
 
sropping the blade after sharpening it, take the wire edge off the edge.I can get the same effect using cardboard, The type that comes at the back of legal notepaper pads. Adding a polishing compound will speed up the prosess. I have also used automotive sandpaper. If you use a mousepad with it, it will give you a nice poished convex edge. I finish up with 2500 grit.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
It generally means use a trailing motion when sharpening using leather or newsprint loaded with a very fine polishing abrasive.

-Cliff
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You're correct except for the newsprint part. This is only true on Bladeforums, not for the rest of the world. We shouldn't push our own beliefs as facts.


--Dave--
 
Newsprint as a stropping media isn't unique to Bladeforums or even first postulated here. It was popularized by makers such as Goo, who doesn't post on Bladeforums. Goo and other makers used unloaded newsprint as a final sharpening step. Of course the use of paper wheels as loaded stropping media (edge trailing sharpening) is very common. Recently some users such as Clark have proposed newsprint over leather simply because it is flatter and is thus a more natural progression from the carefully flattened stones than leather which will deform around the edge and thus interfere with the resharpening process. Traditionally a wide variety of materials are used, wood workers often use wood loaded with a suitable abrasive and the palm of the hand is likely the most common stropping implement.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
It generally means use a trailing motion when sharpening using leather or newsprint loaded with a very fine polishing abrasive.

-Cliff
Click to expand...


"Generally"....."newsprint"

Naaaaah......not so.

Unless we can include all the other wacky methods I read about all the time I would not consider newsprint as "generally" a stropping medium. Leather - yes, fine polishing stones - yes, newsprint - no.

Just because people write about their methods does make make it mainstream, generally used, or even accepted. I don't care who the name of the author is. This goes for me as well.

Please understand that I'm not discounting that newsprint, cardboard, carpet, linoleum, flourescent lighting, car windows, pig's bellies, page 198 of the MSC catalogue, and every other latest and greatest stropping trick doesn't work. I'm only stating that to tell someone who is new to stropping the idea that newsprint is a general stropping medium is ridiculous.

If newsprint ever leaves your limited circle of BS, and goes say 50 years, then I'll revisit this discussion and I'll likely reconsider my position. Until then, I stand behind time honored methods and educating people with such practices.


--Dave--
 
I'd kinda like to know where you got "palm of the hand" as the most common stropping implement too. I've heard and read of a pant leg being used quite a bit, particularly out in the field, but never the palm of the hand.

cbw
 
I strop using a fixed piece of leather on a flexible wood handle. I strop at first to remove a wire edge, but later to really polish that edge bevel, which is a different sort of stropping. you wouldnt want to strop at the same angle as used to remove a wire edge to polish a bevel...i see the two as independant. I first strop using leather at a slightly higher bevel angle to remove a wire edge. once that edge is gone, i go a bit lower in angle and add pressure so only the bevel and the edge itself is hardly getting stropped to avoid rolling the edge.

I think the type of strop really matters. Most people dont understand what they are really doing while stropping and inadvertantly dull their blade and end with a poor final product...what you do with a mousepad and sandpaper is the same as stropping. The leather gives and rolls a bit up at the edge, stripping that wire edge off and leaving the perfect edge bevel. Once the wire edge is removed, you are polishing that cutting bevel and want to minimize the amount of contact with the actual edge to a point where it only gets polished and not rounded...

I personally hold my knives stationary and move the backed leather strop...it gives me more control

This may not be standard stropping, but i'll put this edge up against any i've felt.......

Example of final sharpness: Standing single-ply paper tube...cut leaving bottom tube standing.....
http://www.schottknives.com/chopper/papercut.mpg
 
cbwx34 said:
I'd kinda like to know where you got "palm of the hand" as the most common stropping implement too.
Click to expand...

It is available to everyone obviously which it why it came to mind, plus it has been the most univeral media I have heard. Locally it is common on chisels which came from Ireland. It came up discussing sharpening of convex blades with a traditional maker in malyasia who noted the same was done (no impact) as a finishing step on the smaller blades. You can also see it done in the STIHL series of the lumberjacks from Australia inbetween rounds and of course there is mention from the other uses of convex blades in the US.

This, like untreated leather, or plain newsprint, is mainly a cleaning step as it doesn't have significant abrasive abilities. I use it to remove some debris when changing grits, paper not leather as I want a flat media. There is some alignment, but it is really mild, similar to the "field" versions which see boots, pants and similar used. Traditionally there are also types of mushrooms used for the same thing which are likely older than either leather or paper but since they are specific to location they are not widely used.

D_R_Sharpening said:
Unless we can include all the other wacky methods I read about all the time I would not consider newsprint as "generally" a stropping medium. Leather - yes, fine polishing stones - yes, newsprint - no.
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Paper is actually a far older stropping medium than the compounds that most people currently use and much older than most of the current stones that people use. The wheels that people use on grinders are of course the same thing just the wheel moves away from the blade instead of the blade away from the media. Once that realization is made it becomes obvious you could just use paper or cardboard as a manual version. It in fact was probable that the manual version came first. You can find references of stropping on paper/carboard on the internet from people who didn't use the power versions which predates all internet discussion boards.

Newsprint is also basically free and it is also more friendly to a novice because if you do something really wrong you just use another piece. Plus you can easily load up a dozen pieces with various compounds and see how they all work which is a lot cheaper than trying the same with a bunch of leather hones. There are also lots of other advantages such as you can load it and fold it and store it in your wallet or "survival" kit a lot easier than a normal leather strop.

Newsprint is however a bit fragile and thus I would generally recommend a thicker paper stock especially as a carry hone but of course it doesn't really matter what you use, how you strop and with what abrasive is what is generally more critical. The only other consideration is how thick the media and the extent of the give. A mousepad for example is a current "hi tech" version of a thick piece of leather simply because many more people have mousepads now than leather lying around.

-Cliff
 
Calling it a commonly used strop is a bit different than now saying it is mainly used to clean. I use a rag to clean a blade... I don't call it a strop.

Plus, your examples of a few select groups hardly put it in the category of "a common stropping implement", unless there's more Ireland chisels, Malasyian knife makers, and Australian lumberjacks, around than I'm aware of.

Thanks for the clarification.

cbw
 
Cliff,
You're right, I just found a reference indicating that the use of the "funny section" (of a newspaper) predates the use of waterstones by the Japanese. :jerkit:


:D Dave :D
 
Shoot, I came across another one...

Apparently newsprint was used as a stropping medium prior to the invention of the horse and cow (leather that is). Go figure!?!? :jerkit:


:D Dave :D
 
cbwx34 said:
Calling it a commonly used strop is a bit different than now saying it is mainly used to clean.
Click to expand...

Plain leather is no different than unloaded paper in that regard, so by your perspective you would not call using plain leather stropping either. As I noted, the paper is usually loaded to provide an abrasive action though some makers like Tai Goo do use plain paper as a finishing step. As well, the use of paper and carboard wheels is hardly new, not well accepted, or small circle BS.

Some of the traditional stropping implements also work very poorly on some of the current very high carbide steels, so when someone asks about it, talking about what works vs what is popular tends to be more productive. Sharpening methods, like many other things, can be very popular for vastly more reasons than they actually work. Swaim showed in detail how many of the common "truths" about sharpening, repeated for long times by "experts" were completely false.

Plus, your examples of a few select groups ...
Click to expand...

Were used to show the generality across country and tools. It was the one common media I saw in all groups. Leather is not used commonly here for example outside of barber shops and this is (was anyway) a very much fishing/farming/hunting culture so knife use and sharpening was extensive. Plus the whole contention is kind of silly. Does stropping on cardboard/paper produce a difference responce than leather both loaded/unloaded. Surely that would be a more productive discussion than if the use of paper is commonly accepted so it can fit under a "general" label.

-Cliff
 
Surely that would be a more productive discussion than if the use of paper is commonly accepted so it can fit under a "general" label. /qoute said:
Cliff,
You split the atoms of every hair you come across and you have the nerve to type that to cbw?

Please!?!?!?! :jerkit:


--Dave--
Click to expand...
 
D_R_Sharpening said:
You're correct except for the newsprint part. This is only true on Bladeforums, not for the rest of the world. We shouldn't push our own beliefs as facts.
Click to expand...

Hi Dave,

As Cliff said, Tai Goo mentioned stropping on paper elsewhere than Bladeforums. He uses computer paper, though, instead of newsprint (knifemakers are extravagent, you know). Ernest Emerson's website recommends sharpening his chisel-edged knives with a ceramic rod on the bevel side to raise a burr and then strop the burr away with the back of a notebook pad.

As to its popularity here, there, or anywhere, Michael Jackson sold millions of records to millions of music lovers; his popularity shouldn't be called into question if he offered to babysit.

Views or no views, if stropping on paper works, that's more important (and less expensive) then arguing in a stropping thread.
 
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