Strops and stones may break my bones...

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MagenDavid

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So I was reading a book by Wayne Goddard about knife making, and he discusses sharpening technique. He recommends using the finishing stone to remove the burr, then stropping to polish the edge. I'd always used the strop to remove the burr, though.
So am I clearly in the wrong? Does anyone else strop to remove the burr?
 
David, Shalom . It can be done either way, neither is incorrect . I do it either way, it just depends on where I'm at when sharpening . If things are looking good and I'm moving to the final stone and no burr,--were good . If I look after the final stone and there is a slight burr, I can either stroke more on that stone or move to the strop . It depends if I want to leave some bite to the edge or not . Hope you'll check in w/ us some . DM
 
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Please excuse me posting into your thread MagenDavid.

How do you even find the darn burr? I've been sharpening fro years and can get a knife shaving sharp (recently) but despite looking at schematics of "the burr" - check my blades by holding them "palm down and blade up" then lightly touch the edge of the blade on either side with my thumb.

One side will usually bite skin instantly and the other side not. Same with a marker. Where's the burr? Side that bites easier or the other??

I just give a pass or two on my sharpening media (whatever I'm using) until the blade catches the kin on my thumb equally on the right or left side.

And I doubt if you're hurting your strop a darn bit MagenDavid, unless you're actually cutting into it some way??

I bought a strop, pre-loaded (with polish) and use it all the time and it's been months and several knives with hundreds of passes per knife and it's still working great.
 
cziv - the burr is on the side that shaves or as you say "bites".

MeganDavid - I went to a seminar on sharpening by Wayne Goddard at the Blade show in Atlanta. Mr. Goddard used a 320 grit Norton India stone and a strop. He took a knife from dull to shaving the ink off newsprint with the burr being removed on the strop.


Johnny
 
cziv said:
And I doubt if you're hurting your strop a darn bit MagenDavid, unless you're actually cutting into it some way??
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I was more concerned that the metal from the burr would affect my strop's ability to polish. It's not that big of a deal right now, because I made it from scrap leather and it didn't cost me anything more than the red Craftsman compound. But I was considering buying a JRE strop bat, and didn't want to be shortening its lifespan.

And, holy crap, Wayne Goddard is the man.
 
MagenDavid said:
Thanks guys. Have I been doing damage to my strop by using it to de-burr?
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I don't think so. The surface of even the smoothest leather isn't smooth at all compared to a polished edge. This doesn't affect the stropping, unless I suppose the leather was just grossly damaged.

With practice and patience, it's easy to produce an edge that has no detectable burr using a medium stone, ~180-250 grit range. That is, you can't detect it with your finger tips, and it will shave equally well on either side. Under magnification of 20x-30x however you will still see significant irregularity in such an edge, whether it's actually burr/wire edge, the result of wire edge having been broken off, or just the finish of the abrasive. Stropping really can't repair this irregularity effectively -- what you wind up with is a kind of a toothy, irregularly sharp edge after stropping. Moving to a fine stone before stropping cleans up the edge, which of course makes total sense. That's why old time woodworkers always worked their way through a progression of grits, finishing up on hard, black Arkansas before going to the strop; similarly with the 'scary sharp' method, or with those who favor waterstones. Personally I like finishing on fine white ceramic, about 1200 grit, which leaves a nicely refined, polished edge if you have a very light touch, and is at a good state of finish if you want to then strop for an even finer edge.
 
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I asked my wife to get me a magnifying glass (she got her Mom one for Christmas) so I can see better what you're talking about.

I use a Sharpmaker with diamond rods to set a bevel (sometimes with a pencil under it to get more acute) I use edges & flats - right down to the white ceramics. Then I strop. It looks mirror-like to the naked eye but I'm interested now, in looking under the magnification.

Also, on three of my cheap knives I've learned how to use the sandpaper on a mousepad technique and am making great progress. It really works and my hand is steadier than I thought!

I'm scared to try it on my more expensive knives - to me, that' s any knife that I pay over $100 for. :)
 
I have some DMT stones, and go from medium to fine, to extra fine, to a ceramic rod to a strop. It's served me pretty well for my flat beveled knives. Although for some reason, I can't seem to make it work for Case and Victorinox knives.
 
cziv said:
I asked my wife to get me a magnifying glass (she got her Mom one for Christmas) so I can see better what you're talking about.

I use a Sharpmaker with diamond rods to set a bevel (sometimes with a pencil under it to get more acute) I use edges & flats - right down to the white ceramics. Then I strop. It looks mirror-like to the naked eye but I'm interested now, in looking under the magnification.
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The Sharpmaker white rods, or similar setups like CrockSticks, are IMO the best tool(s) for quickly getting rid of all traces of a burr and really cleaning up an edge.

Sometimes I feel like a broken record mentioning this ... but here's the trick that really gets it done:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3759954&postcount=5

It's incredibly simple, just tilt the blade to get the increased angle on the Sharpmaker for those 3-5 strokes. And like Jeff says, use virtually no pressure. I've looked at what this does to an edge under a microscope, one stroke at a time, and the technique as described is right on.
 
Thanks for that link Dog of War,

What I don't get is why after all the steps I've done to put a 30 degree edge (for instance) on my blade - why I'd want to dull my knife again and re-hone it instead of moving on to the strop? :confused:
 
cziv said:
Thanks for that link Dog of War,

What I don't get is why after all the steps I've done to put a 30 degree edge (for instance) on my blade - why I'd want to dull my knife again and re-hone it instead of moving on to the strop? :confused:
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I know, that's exactly what I thought at first, but with very, very light pressure you're not undoing all that good work, just cleaning up the very edge. I was so skeptical of this that when I finally tried it, I really did look at what was happening to the edge after each and every stroke at elevated angle, and it does exactly what Jeff Clark says. In fact it seems that it may actually take fewer strokes at the normal angle afterward to achieve the edge you're after on the Sharpmaker. But the real magic of doing this is what it does for edge holding, which improves dramatically.

I know others here found the same thing, it's one of the greatest sharpening tricks of all time. Of our many sharpening gurus, I think Jeff is probably the Guru's Guru. :)
 
Dog of War said:
I know others here found the same thing, it's one of the greatest sharpening tricks of all time. Of our many sharpening gurus, I think Jeff is probably the Guru's Guru. :)
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That's an understatement. :D When Jeff posts, I always read his posts twice (at least), and slowly. He's forgotten more about sharpening than I will probably ever learn. Thanks for the link Dog, I'm saving that one to my hard drive.
 
sodak said:
That's an understatement. :D When Jeff posts, I always read his posts twice (at least), and slowly. He's forgotten more about sharpening than I will probably ever learn. Thanks for the link Dog, I'm saving that one to my hard drive.
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Yo, sodak -- Happy Holidays to you, my friend!

Agreed, seems just about everything Jeff posts is archival quality -- and that's not meant to discount the amazing knowledge of so many others here, who I won't even try to name because I'd forget a whole bunch and then surely wind up burning in some kind of blade-deprived hell when I die. :mad:
 
bladeymae said:
cziv - the burr is on the side that shaves or as you say "bites".

MeganDavid - I went to a seminar on sharpening by Wayne Goddard at the Blade show in Atlanta. Mr. Goddard used a 320 grit Norton India stone and a strop. He took a knife from dull to shaving the ink off newsprint with the burr being removed on the strop.


Johnny
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This is exactly what I've been saying over and over . You don't need diamond, nor some of the better quality stones many mention here . There good but it can be done w/ far less equipment . Its the know how you need . DM:thumbup:
 
Thanks Dog of War and all,

I pasted that linked post in a document and I'm going to re-sharpen my BM 940 Osborne right now and employ that technique and report back with my results in about an hour or two (I think we might have to go somewhere for awhile)!

It's sharp now but not Spyderco sharp - let's see what happens?
 
I think I need to try this with my Griptilian and my Sher-kami made Boomerang. I know a guy who likes to really beat on his Super Commander, and yesterday I sharpened it, but it seemed like the stropping just wasn't breaking the burr. I went back to it today with a ceramic rod, as per the link, and that blade went from decent to severing newspaper asunder in no time at all.

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Yeah. My Griptilian and Mikro TUSK are sharper. My khuks are 1.5 and 2 lb razors now.
 
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I did it and it worked. I fooled around with my edge, cutting paper to tiny little slivers.

So, I get done whittling away a sheet of printer paper and thought "I'll do another 1/2 dozen passes" on the Spyderco "fine" ceramics before I put it up and I lost the freaking edge again!! :barf:

So, I got the diamonds and mediums out and did a 20, then a 30 degree bevel, in that order and stropped the heck out of it. It cuts one stroke really sweet but it's hanging on the little sliver cuts most of the time.

I'm done obsessing, it's still pretty sharp though and would definitely cut anything reasonably well.

I don't know about you guys, but the S30V on my BM 940 Osborne is cruel (I didn't mean cool) to work on!
 
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