Strops & technique

S

slices

Joined
Sep 7, 2003
Messages
188
Often people refer to stropping & how it helps. I agree & thought I'd mention the best way I've found. Basically I try to keep the blade as close to lying flat on the strop as possible. By putting my forefinger in the middle of the blade & putting pressure toward the edge , I am able to pull the spine of the knife along the strop,(away from the edge), & follow the contour of the edge. 5 to 10 strokes on each side usually does it.

This is the final step after honing on a sharpmaker. The ultra fine stones are used just prior to this. Besides keeping your angle consistant, the best advice when using a sharpmaker is to keep it clean. An eraser does the job as you sharpen. Edges that will cut hair without touching the skin are achieved on knives with VG-10 , CPM154 , & CPMS30V steel.

I think strop technique probably varies with the type of strop used. The one I have is here.
http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/showdetl.cfm?offerings_id=2427&objectgroup_id=441&catid=54
It is used with the green compound shown. Hope you all will share your techniques & tools. Stay sharp !
 
Yeah, that's what I mean. As far as I know, there is no forum for sharpening here at the forums. With all the great reviews & kinves here, it seems that sharpening techniques could use a place of their own. I'm no expert, but I've been able to put edges on blades recently using the strop that cut hair without touching the skin. It seems I've gotten to the next level after "shaving sharp". Thanks VampyreWolf. Trying to get to "cuts the silk as it falls on blade" sharp, hehe.
 
I bought a strop and stropping paste from Knifecenter.com, so I assume it is quality leather and quality paste. I used it on a knife or two, doing dozens of strokes on a blade that had been sharpened on a Spyderco Profile (I know what I'm doing when it comes to using my hones). I left a tiny tiny bit of burr (possibly what others would not even recognize as a burr) on the edge and stropped it. That tiny bit of burr never disappeared, even with dozens of strokes.

I am now, for the time being, a strop-skeptic. :rolleyes: I have yet to see their effectiveness.

I can get my knives -- generally 440C, ATS-34, CPM-440V, ATS-55 -- to shave hair on the skin with relative ease, and then using ONLY my medium grit gray Spyderco Profile, or lately, Spyderco Ceramic Whet Stone. I never even bother with the white fine grit Profile stone.

I cannot help but wonder if I am doing something wrong when I strop (which I don't even bother to try anymore) and that's why I'm not reaching that "next level" or is it possible that those who are stropping are just succumbing to the power of suggestion, and their knives don't actually get any sharper from stropping, just polished? I had been under the impression that stropping would remove a burr. Joe's Bladeforums Sharpening FAQ suggests that people become able to remove a burr and finish a sharpening job on the whetstone before they succumb to using a strop. I hold with that view. I think it is much the same as learning to fly by pilotage and dead-reckoning before one takes the easy way and uses a GPS to navigate everywhere...

Anyway, I'm still curious about the whole stropping thing...

---Jeffrey
 
I have no problems getting the burr off ats-55, vg-10 and 440v(s60v) steels. that said, I usually take the burr off and then touch on either the 800 grit or spydie whites to finish, as I like a rougher edge.

I don't see why ppl don't learn the basics before getting rigs, much like the pilot analogy. I learned the basics at age 5. Bought a 204 shortly after my 17th bday when I bought a serrated cricket. Got a strop last winter(early dec 02). Most of my generation that use knives have no idea how to sharpen freehand.

I'd far prefer to take a benchstone or 2 in the field than take a rig with ceramics. haven't cleaned a stone yet other than the ceramics. I've chipped ceramics too, nothing done to my stones.

but I'm also a guy that hasn't even learned how to work GPS. I do orienteering in the bush with a very basic compass and nature(sun, stars, and plants). give me a map and compass and try to lose me.
 
In theory, a strop should improve shaving edges. Edges are a matter of shape (geometry) and polish. Push cutters need high polishes to work best. So, since stropping compound like the veritas is something like .5 micron stuff, it should be a great LAST step. I suspect that for those who stropping isn't improving things, that there is either a bad shaping job being done, or earlier polishing steps aren't adequate. I have an 800 grit and a 4000 grit waterstone, and sometimes I go from both stones to the strop, depending ont he knife. The 800 grit + strop will be toothy but kinda polished, while the 4000 grit + sharp is real shiny and push cuts very well. When polishing, skipping grits is bad. Just liek trying to go from 60 grit to 400 grit when trying to get a satin finish polishing a knife, you can't go from a relatively rough stone to a strop and get a super polish.

One thing that would really help is magnification. I found loupes locally for $4, and I have 1 that is 4x and one that is 10x. really seeing edges helps a lot. A smooth edge can reveal polished sections with deep scratches winding through them. Definitely check around for magnification stuff to look at your edges. Get your sharpening gear out, and after each step check out the edge and check to make sure all previous scratches are gone.

Hope this helps!
 
Stropping DOES require proper technique, and it doesn't come in one sitting for most folks, no matter how special your mother thinks you are. I have yet to see a knife that cuts hair above the root though. I think that is an internet "legend".
 
I strop (leather glued to a flat piece of wood) using the green compound with the back of the blade raised very slightly. The aim is to achieve a highly polished edge since I am primarily whittling with carving knives (with the occasional use of a gouge). Usually 5 to 10 strokes per side every 10 minutes or so, or while contemplating a tricky cut, are enough to keep my blades sharp enough to push through the wood without using excessive force.

I don't try to shave with my knives since I can tell if they are sharp enough just by pushing them through the wood.

I don't generally strop my EDC pocket knives since I prefer a somewhat rougher edge for general EDC-type tasks like yard/garden use or cutting a piece of twine or opening the mail. I just put an edge on them with the Sharpmaker medium and fine grit rods.

Mike
 
Jeffrey, Your first problem is that the strop compounds that are sold with razor strops are meant for stropping razors, not for knives. They contain nothing that you would normally call an abrasive. They are not even intended to remove burrs from razors, let alone burrs from knives. When you hone a razor and produce a burr you are supposed to remove that burr with your hone, not with your strop. The strop straigtens out the thinnest part of your razor edge (which includes a little of what we would call a burr). Some razor pastes include a little talc (too soft to be called an abrasive), but most are more grease to treat the leather than anything else.

People who use a strop to remove burrs are mostly using a real abrasive compound to load their strops. This is something like green chromium oxide buffing compound or something similar. I mostly use the straight razor sharpening technique of removing burrs using my hone. I do this by super-elevating my honing angle to about 2x normal and doing a few light edge-first strokes alternating sides as I hone. I do this with a medium fine hone. Then I do a few more light strokes edge-forwards at my normal honing angle. Then I strop using little or no abrasive.
 
I load up my strops with everything fom valve lapping compound to buffing compound some work better than others, some last longer on the leather and some kill the leather after a couple of uses, I'll have to sit down and make a list of what I've used, and how it has worked.
 
I use an old leather belt, and some white powder I got from a woodworkers store. Just says "stropping compound" on it, maybe aluminum oxide powder? Anyway, it seems to work well for me. I get the blade nice and sharp with my stones (diamond, cermaic, or oil) first, then strop. I put a little compound on the belt and strop away, usually 5 to 10 stokes per side. And I agree, keeping the blades spine low to the belt helps. Then, if you don't ding the blade up too bad in use, re-stropping keeps the edge usable enough that you don't have to get the stones out as often.

I don't strop any super metals, mostly 1095, A2, 440A and C, and SAK steels. 420HC polishes up really well, but doesn't seem to cut too well after stropping, must not be toothy enough afterwards. The others cut and slice really well :D Old-Timers and SAKS get seriously sharp this way!
 
Very lively discussion guys! I'm sure that the technique each person uses varies with the geometry of the edge & the type of strop used. Personally I like the one I linked to because it stays flat on it's board, (less tendancy to make the edge convex), and I can change my hand positions easily. I only brought this up because it was something I recently was able to do,(cut hair without touching the skin), and the method described in my last post did it for me. I've been getting blades "shaving sharp" for years, but NEVER was able to do this before. It truely IS the next level of sharpness, as measured by the hair cutting test.

Not all my blades cut hair that way equally well, some just get a few & it takes good light to see em fall, but my BM710HSS cuts em easily. I use fast push cut strokes, not slices, about halfway up arm, leg , or chest hair, depending on what I have left .

Peacefuljeffery, I know you'll get better results if you keep at it. It's an aquired skill like other forms of sharpening. I had trouble using mine at first too, but I kept at it. But I definatly had the blade as sharp as I could get it on the hones, then lightly stropped. Thats another reason why I started this post, to help other forum members be the sharpest around. Don't know about you guys , but bragging rights go with the sharpest knife around here.
 
Originally posted by stich
Stropping DOES require proper technique, and it doesn't come in one sitting for most folks, no matter how special your mother thinks you are. I have yet to see a knife that cuts hair above the root though. I think that is an internet "legend".
Click to expand...

I think it's possible, but the blade has got to be very thin at the edge and you have to swipe the blade very fast and at the correct angle.
 
my calypso jr lt... vg-10, flat ground, 2.5mm at full spine thickness... I have the edge at around 20deg inclusive, stropped the hell out of it to remove the wire, and roughed up a little till it pops hair without touching skin. I can shave flat on the skin off this sucker at 30deg inclusive and the 800grit stone.

my ats-55 dragonfly will pop hair right after I sharpen it, though the angle is such that I sharpen by using sandpaper on the flats and then kick it up about 2-3deg for the final edge(2 stage). Hasn't seen a stone or strop since july 30th, and it still fillets paper.
 
I usually use my old leather belt. The middle part is wood hard from sweat and ends are softer. For me it dramatically improves result. Even without any additional paste or powder.
 
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