Struggling stropping on Dia-paste

T

TooMuchD2

Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
13
Hi all!

I've been sharpening my own knives for the better part of 2 years now and have decided to finally move on from the Sharpal green compound I've been using on my leather strops. I've had great success with this method, going from 300, 800 and 1200 grit then straight to my green compound leather strop. The hardest steel I have sharpened is m390 and it takes quite a decent time longer to strop than my other knives although not terribly long, maybe a couple minutes. I can get all my knives smooth shaving and get clean paper cuts on standard copy paper all day long. EDIT: I am using 1 micron DMT Dia-Paste

The reason I'm moving off from the green compound is because I carry a mini leather stop on my keychain everyday. I find my self growing tired of having to clean and reapply compound every couple weeks and have seen many knife users praise diamond compound's ability to last a very long time.

The problem I'm running into is that for the life of me, I can't seem to get a very clean edge on diamond like I can on green chromium oxide.

After my stone progressions I move to a strop as usual then perform a visual inspection with a loupe and do a fingernail test then a paper test.
-With the visual inspection, the bevel seems more cloudy than usual with no apparent damage to the edge itself.
-When I run it along my fingernail, the edge "catches" but feels significantly rougher than off the stones and also has a "bumpy" feeling similar to running a finger over goosebump skin. The paper test also is worse after stropping.

The effect is especially apparent on cheaper steels like 440A


I've done quite a bit of research on the issue and found several causes that I've already addressed:
1. Too much compound
2. Use the "smooth" side
3.Let it completely dry
4. Use VERY light pressure
5. Hold perfect angle (or slightly less)
6. Don't over strop

The only thing I have not tried yet is stropping on basswood. I'm willing to give it a try, but it's so frustrating to see so many other having seemingly easy success with the diamond compound on leather while I can't seem to figure it out.
Even it it does work out well for me on basswood, the fact still stands that my technique or strop making method is so crap it's making me feel like a knife noob again.

Please help me. I know I can't be the only one with this specific issue. Thanks!
 
Your hunch to try the paste on basswood is a good one. Any other smooth & fine-grained wood will do just as well, like maple, poplar, etc. Whatever's convenient to find for it. Basswood is popular because in some locales, it's easily found in cut sizes ideal for stropping. Hobby Lobby used to carry it for model carving in my area, but I don't think they do anymore. I'm firmly convinced that diamond compounds work much better on wood strops, both for polishing and for refining and protecting a very crisp apex. On softer substrates like leather, it's much too easy to round off the apex very quickly, which diminishes cutting aggression.

If you're looking for faster polishing, try DMT's 3 micron Dia-Paste on the wood. It was my favorite for very quickly polishing wear resistant steels like D2, S30V, etc. Follow with the 1 micron paste if you want to. But generally, I was very happy with just the 3 micron.

And as you've surmised, avoid using too much compound. A little bit goes a very long way. And you're correct in making sure to let it dry completely. Give it 24 - 48 hours for that. Otherwise, it'll still be too 'pasty' and gummy on the strop and will collect on your blade. Some of that might happen anyway, initially. But give it a little time for 'break-in' and stropping will improve with some use.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Your hunch to try the paste on basswood is a good one. Any other smooth & fine-grained wood will do just as well, like maple, poplar, etc. Whatever's convenient to find for it. Basswood is popular because in some locales, it's easily found in cut sizes ideal for stropping. Hobby Lobby used to carry it for model carving in my area, but I don't think they do anymore. I'm firmly convinced that diamond compounds work much better on wood strops, both for polishing and for refining and protecting a very crisp apex. On softer substrates like leather, it's much too easy to round off the apex very quickly, which diminishes cutting aggression.

If you're looking for faster polishing, try DMT's 3 micron Dia-Paste on the wood. It was my favorite for very quickly polishing wear resistant steels like D2, S30V, etc. Follow with the 1 micron paste if you want to. But generally, I was very happy with just the 3 micron.

And as you've surmised, avoid using too much compound. A little bit goes a very long way. And you're correct in making sure to let it dry completely. Give it 24 - 48 hours for that. Otherwise, it'll still be too 'pasty' and gummy on the strop and will collect on your blade. Some of that might happen anyway, initially. But give it a little time for 'break-in' and stropping will improve with some use.
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Hi David,

I ended throwing some 1 micron on a sanded paint stick. actually got a clean edge this time. No clue why I was having trouble on leather. And the leather isn't soft by any means. The kicker is, I was talking to some other people in another group and a few mentioned I should try stropping longer. After about 50 passes each side on the leather strop I did get a clean edge. What I'm not understanding is why it seems to take so much longer on diamond than the green compound. Better yet, I was stropping aus8 after a 1200 grit diamond stone.

Everywhere I look online people say "1 micron is great! Just strop 5-10 times and you're golden! Strop too much after that and you'll round your edge!" Am I missing something here???

I have 3 micron paste coming in this weekend to give that a try.
 
TooMuchD2 said:
Hi David,

I ended throwing some 1 micron on a sanded paint stick. actually got a clean edge this time. No clue why I was having trouble on leather. And the leather isn't soft by any means. The kicker is, I was talking to some other people in another group and a few mentioned I should try stropping longer. After about 50 passes each side on the leather strop I did get a clean edge. What I'm not understanding is why it seems to take so much longer on diamond than the green compound. Better yet, I was stropping aus8 after a 1200 grit diamond stone.

Everywhere I look online people say "1 micron is great! Just strop 5-10 times and you're golden! Strop too much after that and you'll round your edge!" Am I missing something here???

I have 3 micron paste coming in this weekend to give that a try.
Click to expand...
I think some more refining on your stone(s) would benefit the results in stropping. Ideally, if an edge is fully apexed coming off the stone, no more than a few passes on the strop will take it from 'sharp' to hair-popping. Take it as far as you can by finishing with very, very light passes on your stone. Check results by slicing fine paper - should be no slipping in the paper (not fully apexed) or snagging (burrs) when doing so. Should be repeatable through several cuts in the paper, which demonstrates edge stability. If it's not stable (wire edge), the cutting in paper will be alternately hit & miss (unstable edge bending back & forth or folding over). Once you know the edge is cutting well in paper and is stable, then take just a few light passes on the strop - no more than maybe 5-10 and even as few as 1-3 passes.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
I think some more refining on your stone(s) would benefit the results in stropping. Ideally, if an edge is fully apexed coming off the stone, no more than a few passes on the strop will take it from 'sharp' to hair-popping. Take it as far as you can by finishing with very, very light passes on your stone. Check results by slicing fine paper - should be no slipping in the paper (not fully apexed) or snagging (burrs) when doing so. Should be repeatable through several cuts in the paper, which demonstrates edge stability. If it's not stable (wire edge), the cutting in paper will be alternately hit & miss (unstable edge bending back & forth or folding over). Once you know the edge is cutting well in paper and is stable, then take just a few light passes on the strop - no more than maybe 5-10 and even as few as 1-3 passes.
Click to expand...
Thank you for gently telling me my sharpening needs some work (ha). I revisited my technique on the stones. This time I went back to the sharpie marker method. I found out that when I'm edge leading away from me (I only hold the knife with my dominant hand, I don't swap), I'm just barely touching the actual edge and missing the apex on that side. I corrected the issue and tried the sharpie method again for stropping. And what do ya know! Same issue again. So this entire time I've been missing the apex on one side.

I think the reason I was getting away with the green compound was because I was using a little more pressure and it was enough for the leather to touch the apex that way. Now that I've figured that out, I'm blown away by how fast diamond cleans up the edge on my 9 inch strop. I'll probably throw some 3 micron on my pocket strop.

Thanks for your responses!
 
TooMuchD2 said:
Thank you for gently telling me my sharpening needs some work (ha). I revisited my technique on the stones. This time I went back to the sharpie marker method. I found out that when I'm edge leading away from me (I only hold the knife with my dominant hand, I don't swap), I'm just barely touching the actual edge and missing the apex on that side. I corrected the issue and tried the sharpie method again for stropping. And what do ya know! Same issue again. So this entire time I've been missing the apex on one side.

I think the reason I was getting away with the green compound was because I was using a little more pressure and it was enough for the leather to touch the apex that way. Now that I've figured that out, I'm blown away by how fast diamond cleans up the edge on my 9 inch strop. I'll probably throw some 3 micron on my pocket strop.

Thanks for your responses!
Click to expand...
That's a pretty big epiphany moment, in learning these things. I went through the same struggles early on, as have a lot of us here. It's a good feeling when things start to 'click' like that, and it makes sharpening much more rewarding.

Well Done! :thumbsup:
 
I don't use "very light pressure" quite the contrary. You need enough pressure to slightly compress the substrate enough to wrap the edge.

I recommend not using basswood or balsa wood. I tried balsa wood with diamond spray to strop and tool me a good while to realize it was creating burrs on my knives which failed quickly, obviously this is bad. Total edge failure at work in the morning sucks.

I had MUCH more success creating burr free edges stropped to whittle or cut free hanging hairs with a single layer of denim stretched out on top of the balsa wood. It compresses easily so it requires far less pressure than the wood and never draws out burrs, very repeatable results. I am currently trying cheap leather on balsa now. Compresses less than the denim, so it takes a little more conscious effort to hold angles and pressures right. But I can easily get my knives (magnacut and k390) to cut free standing fine arm hairs.

I use two strops. One with 3 micron diamond paste, followed by a .5 micron diamond spray. After apexing om a dmt coarse stone followed by a dmt fine stone, deburring first on the stones.
 
Oddly enough, I managed to get a very nice edge off a 600 grit stone then stropping off diamond paste on a paint stick. I was only able to make that work by holding the strop tilted about 80⁰ and just let the blade JUST touch the stick so not even the weight of the knife was pushing on it. I find using straight wood to be not very forgiving especially with softer steel.

I was just obsessing over not being able to figure it out on leather while other could.
 
TooMuchD2 said:
Oddly enough, I managed to get a very nice edge off a 600 grit stone then stropping off diamond paste on a paint stick. I was only able to make that work by holding the strop tilted about 80⁰ and just let the blade JUST touch the stick so not even the weight of the knife was pushing on it. I find using straight wood to be not very forgiving especially with softer steel.

I was just obsessing over not being able to figure it out on leather while other could.
Click to expand...
☝️That's exactly how I like to use wood 'stick' strops, and for the same reason - to minimize pressure against the edge, just skimming along the length of it. I kind of prop it vertically (or nearly so) with the lower end against the inside of my knee while sitting. Always reminds me of someone playing a cello when I'm using it that way. Works very well.
 
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TooMuchD2 said:
Hi all!

I've been sharpening my own knives for the better part of 2 years now and have decided to finally move on from the Sharpal green compound I've been using on my leather strops. I've had great success with this method, going from 300, 800 and 1200 grit then straight to my green compound leather strop. The hardest steel I have sharpened is m390 and it takes quite a decent time longer to strop than my other knives although not terribly long, maybe a couple minutes. I can get all my knives smooth shaving and get clean paper cuts on standard copy paper all day long. EDIT: I am using 1 micron DMT Dia-Paste

The reason I'm moving off from the green compound is because I carry a mini leather stop on my keychain everyday. I find my self growing tired of having to clean and reapply compound every couple weeks and have seen many knife users praise diamond compound's ability to last a very long time.

The problem I'm running into is that for the life of me, I can't seem to get a very clean edge on diamond like I can on green chromium oxide.

After my stone progressions I move to a strop as usual then perform a visual inspection with a loupe and do a fingernail test then a paper test.
-With the visual inspection, the bevel seems more cloudy than usual with no apparent damage to the edge itself.
-When I run it along my fingernail, the edge "catches" but feels significantly rougher than off the stones and also has a "bumpy" feeling similar to running a finger over goosebump skin. The paper test also is worse after stropping.

The effect is especially apparent on cheaper steels like 440A


I've done quite a bit of research on the issue and found several causes that I've already addressed:
1. Too much compound
2. Use the "smooth" side
3.Let it completely dry
4. Use VERY light pressure
5. Hold perfect angle (or slightly less)
6. Don't over strop

The only thing I have not tried yet is stropping on basswood. I'm willing to give it a try, but it's so frustrating to see so many other having seemingly easy success with the diamond compound on leather while I can't seem to figure it out.
Even it it does work out well for me on basswood, the fact still stands that my technique or strop making method is so crap it's making me feel like a knife noob again.

Please help me. I know I can't be the only one with this specific issue. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I had been using DMT diamond paste and was not happy with the results. I switched to Tech Diamond Tools paste. It is a polycrystalline compound vs monocrystalline. Polycrystalline is better for stock removal, monocrystalline is better for polishing. I get much better stropping results from Tech Diamond Tools vs DMT’s paste. I use a 12mu, 6mu and 1mu paste (it’s actually 6 to 12, 3 to 6)… I also use Tormek’s paste for initial stropping. If it is supersteel I will often finish with the 6mu diamonds. If I am polishing I’ll finish with the 1mu. Honestly, with my eyes I can’t see the difference between the 6mu vs 1mu. That being the case I imagine the 6mu removes metal faster…
 
Gottagofishn said:
I had been using DMT diamond paste and was not happy with the results. I switched to Tech Diamond Tools paste. It is a polycrystalline compound vs monocrystalline. Polycrystalline is better for stock removal, monocrystalline is better for polishing. I get much better stropping results from Tech Diamond Tools vs DMT’s paste. I use a 12mu, 6mu and 1mu paste (it’s actually 6 to 12, 3 to 6)… I also use Tormek’s paste for initial stropping. If it is supersteel I will often finish with the 6mu diamonds. If I am polishing I’ll finish with the 1mu. Honestly, with my eyes I can’t see the difference between the 6mu vs 1mu. That being the case I imagine the 6mu removes metal faster…
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It's funny that you made that comment now. I also switched to TDT because it was cheaper and had more options I could try. The 6-12 micron works wonders for D2 when away from home. I made a double sided keychain strop with the TDT 1500 and TDT 5k. I find that a more aggressive strop is better for me when im out and about. I decimate 15-20 large cardboard boxes, strop, then continue.
 
Many folks, including myself, find that traditional stropping emulsions work better on most stainless and softer steels than diamonds. I like Tormek’s… allegedly, it’s 3 to 6mu. It’s not waxy, it’s a paste. A tiny bit of oil on your strop, then the paste. I’m not sure it’s more aggressive than the green stuff, but I am happy with it’s performance.

Just to be clear, I use either a Tormek honing wheel or 1x30 leather strop on a low speed bench sander. There is a learning curve, but once you get the hang of it, you really speed up the stropping process. For example, my wife uses a Shun (VG-Max, a VG 10 on steroids allegedly) in the kitchen sharpened to 70- 90 as measured by a BESS. After she uses it two or three times it usually tests between 150 - 200. Two passes on a strop loaded with Tormek paste will net between 70-90. Diamond paste usually takes a couple more passes.
 
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I use a 14 micron and 3 micron diamond paste (Venev) on leather strops, rough and smooth side, respectively. I smear it on, and use a heat gun to melt the waxy carrier which soaks into the leather. Works super fast and give a great edge. I went 8 months before having to re charge the strop and I used it a LOT, every knife I made or sharpened, or any time I sharpened or touched up a knife. I took a 60 HRC AEB-L blade with micro chips and a visibly flat edge apex and stropped it back to shaving in about 3-4 minutes, if that. 64 HRC Magnacut kitchen knife, 2 passes on each side of the knife on a 1 micron diamond strop on leather brought it back to stupid sharp when the edge started to falter a bit.

I found the key is extremely low pressure and after finding where the apex hits the leather angle wise, drop the spine towards the strop a hair; it helps prevent rounding over the edge and you can sneak up on the apex a bit more. If I went right to the apex on leather, I would often over strop or round the edge out, but dropping the spine back a hair seemed to solve this for me.

I also have 40 and 20 micron pastes, and 1 and 1/2 micron pastes. The 40 micron works fast, but still leaves a fairly smooth edge. Didn't notice much difference between the 14 and 20 micron pastes, either. I strop 52100, 80CRV2, AEB-L, Nitro V, Magnacut, 3V, Cruwear, S90V and I find the diamonds work pretty well on all of them! I just need to remember than the lower alloy steels need less stropping and not to over do it because the diamonds work fast!
 
Taz said:
I found the key is extremely low pressure and after finding where the apex hits the leather angle wise, drop the spine towards the strop a hair; it helps prevent rounding over the edge and you can sneak up on the apex a bit more. If I went right to the apex on leather, I would often over strop or round the edge out, but dropping the spine back a hair seemed to solve this for me
Click to expand...

This! ^^
On my 1x30 I hold the blade vertically and orient it so my light reflects off the bevel. I can then see and strop at the exact angle of the bevel. If I do less than the bevel angle with a powered strop it is not as effective unless I use enough pressure to get the strop to kiss the apex. A Light touch is key, however it is steel dependent. The critical part is to not put any pressure on the stropping substrate causing it to round the apex. This is an issue with leather, or softer strops, not so much on some of the more firm stropping mediums like Basswood.
 
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